This is topic Will all Secret, Dry, and Jack (in the historic sense) Mormons please step forward? in forum Books, Films, Food and Culture at Hatrack River Forum.


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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
You know, I was thinking about what I would be like if I hadn't been born into the family that I was. I believe in my doctrine, have a testimony, and love my church, but I've wondered before if I would have been sympathetic if I hadn't been born into it.

So, with that premise.

1. The percentage of US population that is LDS is about 6 million/260 million, or about 2.3%.

2. The percentage of those sympathetic cannot be calculated precisely (=I don't know), but if you take the families of members, plus those with good business dealings, plus citizens of Michigan and Massachusetts that dealt with a Mormon governor, minus everyone that has bad business dealings <sorry>, plus the makers of South Park, minus the makers of Orgazmo and Latter Days, plus those who've read Homecoming and Saints, minus the citizens of Salt Lake City that hated the Main Street Plaza, plus everyone who has had a pleasant encounter with the cute missionaries, minus those who have had bad encounters with the missionaries <sorry again>, plus my cousin who has a Mormon best friend, minus the no-longer-members-and-upset former members, plus everyone who has ever tried to do geneology, minus (almost ) everyone who has read one of the innumerable "Mormons are Cultists" books, plus everyone who has dated a Mormon and enjoyed it, minus everyone who has dated a Mormon and then been badly broken up with because of it, plus those who like the view from the Beltway in DC, minus those who hate the spire in Boston, plus and minus those who alternately love and hate Donny Osmond (I'm afraid that's a net loss), and I'm going to hazard another 20% are sympathetic and/or secret.

How does that measure up to Hatrack? It's a touchy subject, I know, and I can't believe I'm asking, and if you're offended please ignore the thread but think nicely of me still, but if I may, and if you will, will all the Secret and Sympathetic please stand up?

[ April 09, 2004, 04:09 PM: Message edited by: katharina ]
 

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Posted by Yank (Member # 2514) on :
 
Yep.
 

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Posted by Kamisaki (Member # 6309) on :
 
I'm not sure what you're really asking but your post was funny anyway.

But I'm an actual Mormon (not just Sympathetic) so I don't think I count.
 

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Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
 
I guess you would count me as a sympathetic.

I was engaged (sort of) to a Mormon. She was my best friend for 7 years. One of my other good friends was one as well.

I have read Lost Boys, Saints, Folk of the Fringe, and the homecoming series.

I have in fact, read the entire Book of Mormon.

I post on a fansite who's creater is a Mormon, and which has dozens of Mormon posters. This author was my favorite during my youth, and I have read each of his books an average of 3 times.

I have toured temple square, and saw the youth choir sing.

I in fact, at one time, almost considered myself one .

So I suppose all that can be summed up by : *raises hand for the sympathetic*

[ April 09, 2004, 03:55 PM: Message edited by: Xavier ]
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
*blink* Yank?? You're back?!
 

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Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Kat what do you mean by "sympathetic". Would you consider me or TomD sympathetic even though we strongly disagree on certain issues and would never be LDS ourselves?

AJ
 

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Posted by Yank (Member # 2514) on :
 
Florida is really, really hot.

They tell me it's been two years.
 

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Posted by zgator (Member # 3833) on :
 
I'm not sure what you mean by sympathetic?
 

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Posted by Taalcon (Member # 839) on :
 

quote:

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plus the makers of South Park, minus the makers of Orgazmo

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You just effectively cancelled out both Trey and Matt.

I will say that on my last drive home, I very much appreciated the view from the Beltway - even though I actually wasn't even SUPPOSED to be on the beltway, and actually found myself (literally!) on the Road To Damascus. Damascus, Maryland, that is.

Pretty, pretty spires, though. Hope to get a closer view someday. Preferably when I'm not lost.

[ April 09, 2004, 03:56 PM: Message edited by: Taalcon ]
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
1. I was actually thinking more of what Xav said, but I have to admit I don't have a precise definition in my head. My guess is that if you feel that's you, then it is.

--AND--

2. Welcome home, Sterling.
 

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Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
 
Florida, eh? What mission? (I have a friend who got back from the Orlando mission last year.)
 

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Posted by JohnKeats (Member # 1261) on :
 
I extend my sympathy to all Mormons everywhere.


 

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Posted by Yank (Member # 2514) on :
 
The Florida Jacksonville and Associated Sticks mission.
 

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Posted by Slash the Berzerker (Member # 556) on :
 
I hate all Mormons.

Every time I meet a Mormon, I punch them. Or take them to Starbucks. One or the other.

Stupid Mormons and their stupid 'oh we're so cool because we have Donny and Marie Osmond'.

*shakes fist*
 

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Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
 
I guess you could say I am sympathetic -- I dated a Mormon for awhile; I have toured Temple Square in SLC, and toured the interior of a temple (pre-dedication) in OKC. I have several friends who are Mormon, and I went through the first four (of six) meetings with LDS missionaries once as an investigator before backing out and deciding I didn't agree with the doctrine or beliefs enough to be LDS.

So even though I disagree with some of their beliefs, I hold LDS people in high regard and have many LDS friends (including on Hatrack)

Farmgirl

edit: oh yeah -- and I've read the BOM -- in fact, I have one of those fancy "all in one" personalized versions that has the BOM, Bible, D&C and Pearl books all in it

[ April 09, 2004, 04:02 PM: Message edited by: Farmgirl ]
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
You know Taalcon, there is a way to get a closer look.

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Farmgirl, I can't believe I left off everyone who's dated a Mormon from the above list. Consider it added.

[ April 09, 2004, 04:05 PM: Message edited by: katharina ]
 

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Posted by zgator (Member # 3833) on :
 
JB, you had a friend on a mission in Orlando and you didn't send him my way? I would have been happy to put his faith to the test.
 

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Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
 
Slash, you are jealous because *you* don't have Donny nor Marie.

[ April 09, 2004, 04:10 PM: Message edited by: mr_porteiro_head ]
 

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Posted by JohnKeats (Member # 1261) on :
 
We had Mormon associates when I was growing up because I was involved in boy scouts. This was before Mormania had really swallowed the boy scouts, but anyway...

I've only met one Mormon person that made me unsympathetic to Mormonism in general. I know that that person is hardly representative of the whole, though. Pretty much every other Mormon I've met is a great person.

Hyperbole:

What would make me most unsympathetic to Mormonism? The way y'all breed.

I actually got to attend an LDS service with Orson Scott Card in his Greensboro church, and while everything there was nice, I was baffled by the ubiquitous baby noises that filled the joint. All through the service there was crying and whining and <insert little people sounds here>. It was worse than a movie theater in a toy store!
 

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Posted by Taalcon (Member # 839) on :
 
In addition to the above, a lot of the people who've had important impacts on my life have been LDS - and generally females.

One of 'em was a great friend to me during a move in the middle of my highschool freshman year, and sent me letters that in many ways kept me sane.

Another randomly gave me a kiss on the cheek on a band trip my Senior Year of high school. No, it wasn't really impactful, but it was kinda cool. She was kinda cute.

I dated an awesome LDS girl for several months a couple years back, but mutually agreed to halt that phase of the relationship because of the conflict in our faiths. She even threw the phone across the room once in one of my not-so-well-thought-out attempts to 'convert' her. We're still really good friends, and she's now happily married.

Katharina's pretty dang cool herself.

In the past, I've even had people ask me if I was a Mormon, and I even heard that once someone described me as being a "Dry Mormon". So let me just set the record straight about that:

I'm not dry.

[ April 09, 2004, 04:18 PM: Message edited by: Taalcon ]
 

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Posted by Slash the Berzerker (Member # 556) on :
 
I collaborated on a short story with a Mormon once.

Caleb, I second the breeding thing.
 

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Posted by zgator (Member # 3833) on :
 
JB, you had a friend on a mission in Orlando and you didn't send him my way? I would have been happy to put his faith to the test.
 

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Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
 
And I'm sure he would've been happy to baptize you, Zan.

JohnKeats, that "movie theater in a toy store" line is utterly awesome.
 

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Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
 
I have an LDS hymnal. Does that count?
 

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Posted by Taalcon (Member # 839) on :
 
Hey, so do I.
 

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Posted by Yank (Member # 2514) on :
 
Only if you can hum the tune to "In Our Lovely Deseret."
 

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Posted by Kamisaki (Member # 6309) on :
 
"Hark, Hark, Hark!"

That's one of my favorite lines in the whole book.
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 

quote:

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I have an LDS hymnal. Does that count?

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quote:

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Hey, so do I.

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quote:

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Only if you can hum the tune to "In Our Lovely Deseret."

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Maybe not, but can YOU hum the tune to "Jesus Loves the Little Children?"
 

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Posted by Yank (Member # 2514) on :
 
No, but I sing a mean "Amazing Grace." (-;
 

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Posted by Yank (Member # 2514) on :
 
I've also forgotten how to do smilies over the last two years.
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
Yank, replace "Hark, hark, hark, 'tis children's music" with "Jesus love the little children" in the line, and the source of Snow's inspiration may become clear...
 

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Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
By sympathetic do you mean inclined to convert or merely not hateful towards Mormons?

A lot of my family is Mormon and they always talk as though they're still somehow persecuted (and that seems to be going with unympathetic, please correct me if I'm wrong). Maybe I'm just naive, but I really don't see this. While I'm not inclined to convert, I support their choices to do whatever they believe is right. (Even when it meant not getting to see my sister get married. ) But I think that most people see Mormons as just another religion. No differently then Mormons see Quakers or Jehovah's Witnesses.

So, as for the question of sympathy. I don't know, I'm not inclined to convert, but I have family members that I love that are members and have heard a great deal of their doctrine, and read parts of all the books. So what does that make me?
 

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Posted by Amanecer (Member # 4068) on :
 
Also, for curiousity's sake, what are secret, dry, and jack Mormons?

Edit: spelling mistake

[ April 09, 2004, 04:46 PM: Message edited by: Amanecer ]
 

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Posted by Taalcon (Member # 839) on :
 
Does anyone else find it hilariously creepy that the Google Ads below this thread are for LDS Singles websites?
 

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Posted by zgator (Member # 3833) on :
 

quote:

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And I'm sure he would've been happy to baptize you, Zan.

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quote:

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I'm not dry

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Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
 
I didn't know that was the historical origins for the term "Jack Mormon"! Cool. The only connotation I have heard of is the Mormon who once lived their religion, but now openly lives against it.
 

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Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :
 
And what would that term be, pray tell -
 

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Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
 
I always thought that a jack mormon was somebody who was a member of the church, but you'd never know it by watching them.
 

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Posted by Amka (Member # 690) on :
 
Points to what Kama said, in referal to what Taalcon said.

*blink*
 

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Posted by Taalcon (Member # 839) on :
 
Something in your eye, Ami?
 

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Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
 

quote:

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and I'm going to hazard another 20% are sympathetic and/or secret.

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I just want to point out that I would be really, really, really suprised if that many people had had enough dealings with Mormons, that they knew of, anyway, to make an opinion. From what people have said on Hatrack, I think Mormons are way more prevalent west of the Mississippi. I've only met one Mormon that I know of, and that was while I was in the army, and he was kind of...weird.

Oh, and one person you forgot to mention on your 'minus' side is Orrin Hatch.
 

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Posted by Amka (Member # 690) on :
 
Well, there is always the mote in my eye.
 

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Posted by John L (Member # 6005) on :
 
Am I sympathetic? I really don't know. You tell me. Keep in mind that I'm not comparing it to other religions, because I have my own beefs with each of them, as well. The list:

• I respect the level of faith placed in the religion, but I find the "proof" for the basis of the faith more than dubious, at best.
• I love the idea of missions, but I find sending children-becoming-adults off to places where there is no family and the only familiar faces are ecumenical leaders a little too much like... well, intentional "impressing." That it's not required keeps me from actually disliking it instead of being uneasy with it.
• I think the solidarity of the church itself is a strength, but the secretism of the temples and the ritual is a weakness.
• The family values within are commendable at least, admirable at most, but the pervasive mentality to marry and propagate throughout is annoying at least, intentional "ascendance" at most.
• I sympathize with the persecution of the faith, but when weighed against its own prejudices (of blacks and gays), it takes on a different light from outside the faith.
• Just like many other religions, I completely disapprove of its views on homosexuality.

Just like with pretty much any (or, I should say, many) religion(s), I find great things about them worth celebrating, and plenty of things that make them so I could never join them and remain true to myself.
 

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Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
 
I don't drink any (much) alcohol if that counts... Mainly its because I hate booze. It makes me feel lethargic and misantropic.
I found myself reeading about Mormonism last week... There are things I do not agree with, quite a few, but the emphasis on the family and morality is nice.
 

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Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
 
I'm not a Jack Mormon so much as a John L Mormon.
 

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Posted by John L (Member # 6005) on :
 
I'm touched... or, I'd like to be.
 

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Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
 
Let's recapitulate.

Taal is not dry, and Leto wants to be touched by CT.

And this is a religion thread?
 

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Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
Holy crap. Now there's an interpretation that never occurred to me. I'm not even sure what it is.

Oh Dave, for shame...

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And the links at the bottom are for ... Caring for Coastal Waters and Marine Conservation!

[ April 10, 2004, 09:53 AM: Message edited by: katharina ]
 

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