Hatrack River Forum: What makes the present tense?

This is topic What makes the present tense? in forum Books, Films, Food and Culture at Hatrack River Forum.

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Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :

People looking over my shoulder!

Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :

But that was a few minutes ago, so they actually made the past tense.

Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :

Time warp --> future tense.

Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :

Oh Bob, it's all subjunctive anyway.

Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :

Oh. This isn't really a question about grammar or linguistics or anything else cool.

*is crestfallen*

Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :

I thought it would be about when you give someone the exact same thing as someone else at a birthday party.

Posted by Dobbie (Member # 3881) on :

Grammatically speaking, shouldn't that sentence be "Oh, that isn't really a question about grammar, linguistics, or anything else that is cool."

Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :

No.

Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :

Dobbie,

Shouldn't that question have a question mark at the end of it rather than a period?

[ March 18, 2004, 07:27 PM: Message edited by: sndrake ]

Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :

Okay, let's figure out the requirements for what makes something present, future or past tense. Is there a general rule we can deduce or is it just proper word choice?

There are languages that use markers rather than different verb tenses. Although it looks weird, maybe that's a more efficient way to structure a language.

I go to the house, tomorrow.
I go to the house, today.
I go to the house, now.
I go to the house, yesterday.

Versus:

I will go,
I am going,
I went.

etc...

Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :

Don't be so passive, Jon Boy. If the past were perfect, you could get away with declining participation.

However, you ain't pluperfect, and you never will be. [Mad]

Posted by Alucard... (Member # 4924) on :

People who buy shoes at the drug store. For like 3.99 a pair. [shivers]

Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :

CT, you rawk.

Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :

quote:
Okay, let's figure out the requirements for what makes something present, future or past tense. Is there a general rule we can deduce or is it just proper word choice?

I'm honestly a little confused. Is this question serious? The general rule is that tense depends on the form of the verb. There are a few exceptions, of course. The tense of verbs in subordinate clauses isn't always a strict indicator of time. And in English, we often use the present tense to indicate a future aspect, such as in "I'm going to take a test tomorrow." I believe this is the result of English not having a true future tense until the Middle English period.

Posted by Zalmoxis (Member # 2327) on :

Oh, no. Too many bad grammar puns all at one [edit: once]. In soooo much pain.

I need a morpheme shot. CT?

[ March 18, 2004, 07:39 PM: Message edited by: Zalmoxis ]

Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :

CT, it's imperative that you stop making these puns!

I'm sure that you thought about inviting me to make puns in this thread myself, but thought better of it, knowing that I'd decline.

Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :

That was a superlative guess, Noemon! But my adjective was really just to determine who still was around last night.

Sorry to leave you dangling. [Wink]

Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :

I think you should all be in punner's prison and as everyone knows, there you don't get ANY conjugate visits.

Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :

quote:
I'm honestly a little confused. Is this question serious? The general rule is that tense depends on the form of the verb. There are a few exceptions, of course. The tense of verbs in subordinate clauses isn't always a strict indicator of time. And in English, we often use the present tense to indicate a future aspect, such as in "I'm going to take a test tomorrow." I believe this is the result of English not having a true future tense until the Middle English period.

Jon Boy, I'm actually wondering why we don't just leave the verb alone (one form for all tenses) and just use marker words. Wouldn't that be more efficient?

Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :

CT, no problem. I'm just glad that my comment didn't offend you; I'd hate to have goaded you into taking a swipe at me with your clause.

Some languages do that Bob--Thai, for example. Because languages are organic, though, their rules aren't generally streamlined for efficiency.

Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :

Noemon, you're the definite article, that's for sure. In conjunction with that remark, I'd like to offer up a call for other interesting, Noemon-related complements.

[Big Grin]

Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :

(I'm just demonstrative of my affection that way. Call me possessive.)

Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :

[Big Grin]

::is thinking::

Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :

(*is going to bed [Wave]

)

Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :

Grammar Puns are a pain in the :

Posted by Unmaker (Member # 1641) on :

In English, the simple present tense can be used for future ("He arrives tomorrow"), for past ("In 44 B.C.E., Caesar is cruelly assassinated by his closest associates"), or for habitual/always true actions ("Dogs bark"; "On Fridays, Slash gets sloshed").

Seldom, however, is it used to show action in the present! For that we use the present progressive (or continuous).

"I am looking over Bob's shoulder right now" as opposed to "I look over Bob's shoulder right now."

Ain't English fun?

Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :

Dash it all, Dan_raven, don't compound the problem!

Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :

Dan and Bob don't compound problems, they underscore them.

Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :

[Hail]

Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :

We need to get a European perspective. Ask Comma. (kama)

Grammar Puns are a Capital offence.

Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :

that's it! I'm prolonging your sentence. I'm diagrammatically opposed to this!\

Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :

(Hee-hee, Bob's slash is sticking out)

Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :

Wonder what Dana thinks of Bob's \ sticking out?

[ March 19, 2004, 02:04 PM: Message edited by: BannaOj ]

Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :

quote:
Jon Boy, I'm actually wondering why we don't just leave the verb alone (one form for all tenses) and just use marker words. Wouldn't that be more efficient?

What's efficiency? Using fewer words, or using a simpler system of tenses? Either way, you've got a set of rules that you have to know and follow.

And anyway, from what I understand, verb tense is a more natural feature of language than separate tense markers. The reason separate markers arose is that tenses sometimes collapse together and the distinction is lost. In Proto-Germanic, all tenses collapsed together into past and present. In order to make other tenses, compounds had to be used. Our future is formed with will plus an infinitive, while many other tenses are formed with a form of be or have plus a participle. So English tenses are really a mix of verb tense and verb phrases.