Okay, we got into a debate here at work on music genres, and I see a definate split according to age (ages of those here at work) on our definitions.
Boss A and I say that songs sung by Clay Aiken, Elton John, etc. (those types of songs) do classify as Pop. They are pop singers (This whole conversation came about through a discussion about American Idol).
The younger guys here say Pop is singers like Brittany Spears, Justin Timberlake, Avril Lavigne, etc.
We (the boss and I say they are pop TOO, but the first group also counts as pop, even though the style is much different -- kind of a crooner style, like Frank Sinatra and Tom Jones)
What say ye?
Farmgirl
Posted by Danzig (Member # 4704) on :
I agree with you and your boss; both types are pop.
Posted by zgator (Member # 3833) on :
What else would you call Elton John?
Posted by beatnix19 (Member # 5836) on :
pop = popular music. Different generation/decades but still the popular music of the time. The stuff you would hear on top forty station across the nation.
You and your Boss are right
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
All are pop, but they occasionally stray into other genres for specific songs.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
Well yeah....I'd say they're both pop, but there are about four gazillion different forms of pop....so....
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
Are there two different classifications of pop, though? I mean one for the "skaterboy" type of pop, and one for the ballad crooners?
(I'm a country music fan -- and we have our definate country vs. western divide, but country can be fast or slow...)
Farmgirl
Posted by skillery (Member # 6209) on :
Brittany and Justin are bubblegum.
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
I think Avril is on the edge, as she is very strongly punk (even if it is wimp-punk) influenced, but the rest are certainly all from the same branch of rock.
-Bok
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
Why don't you have good music debates?
Like The Beatles vs. The Rolling Stones vs. The Who!
Now THAT'S a debate.
-Bok
Posted by beatnix19 (Member # 5836) on :
Hmm...Brittney Bubble gum. I better stop that line of thought right there before my dirty mind gets me in trouble.
[ March 04, 2004, 02:29 PM: Message edited by: beatnix19 ]
Posted by St. Yogi (Member # 5974) on :
Bubblegum? Is that a new word for crap?
Yeah, what Beatnix said.
Edit: What Beatnix said before the post above mine.
[ March 04, 2004, 02:29 PM: Message edited by: St. Yogi ]
Posted by Snarky (Member # 4406) on :
There are many different subgenres of pop. Lots of different stuff gets lumped together under the broad umbrella of pop music.
Posted by beatnix19 (Member # 5836) on :
Yogi. now you've gone and ruined my train of thought with the crappy comment. Poo flavored bubble gum is not much fun!
Edit: but I must agree, I want to drive sharp objects into my ears when I hear brittney/Justin/Christina/all the others on the air waves.
[ March 04, 2004, 02:32 PM: Message edited by: beatnix19 ]
Posted by Da_Goat (Member # 5529) on :
Britney and Justin are bubblegum (like the sixty's song about Mr. Postman), Elton John is adult contemporary (like the less-country John Denver). Both are different styles of the broad category of "pop", and both are equally mind-numbing.
[ March 04, 2004, 02:32 PM: Message edited by: Da_Goat ]
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
Bubblegum pop, pop-rock, pop-punk, alt-pop....
Avril's definitely pop-punk, with an emphasis on the pop. Punk-pop....
Although Britney and such are kind of leaning away from the bubblegum pop, now that I think about it.
[ March 04, 2004, 02:32 PM: Message edited by: pH ]
Posted by Da_Goat (Member # 5529) on :
Bokomon, I'm not sure about The Beatles or The Who, but The Rolling Stones lose, hands down.
Posted by Dead_Horse (Member # 3027) on :
Bubblegum...annoying...like a nasty sticky thing stuck on the bottom of your shoe...wholly appropriate....Hmmm.
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
The Who absolutely win.
-Bok
Posted by Da_Goat (Member # 5529) on :
Yeah, you're probably right.
See, this isn't much of a debate, is it?
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
quote: Why don't you have good music debates?
Like The Beatles vs. The Rolling Stones vs. The Who!
Because most of the guys I work with are like 21 or 22 years old -- my boss & I are over 40. So we don't know if those young'uns even KNOW the music of the Stones....
(no offense intended to the youngsters here -- we know you are much more cultured than the people I speak of above.
FG
Posted by St. Yogi (Member # 5974) on :
I prefer the Beatles to the Stones. Haven't heard much by The Who though.
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
Hey, I'm only 27ish. There's no excuse for knowing about the British Big Three.
Did any of you know that Led Zeppelin is a cult favorite in the teen set these days? Time had an article on it in the last couple months.
-Bok
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
St. Yogi, get Tommy (NOT the movie soundtrack one, but the original recordings) and Who's Next. That will start you on the way
-Bok
Posted by Da_Goat (Member # 5529) on :
[directed towards post before last] Being a teen (who also happens to love The Beatles, The Who, and likes the 'Stones), yes I did.
[ March 04, 2004, 02:48 PM: Message edited by: Da_Goat ]
Posted by beatnix19 (Member # 5836) on :
FG - they seem better the the debates or discussion I have here at school. My students all assume that I listen to country music because I'm white. It's fun to shock them with my current knowledge of hip hop. Although I don't mention my true tastes because they wouldn't even begin to understand. (I'm a hippie rock (jam band) and folk rock fan for the most part but do appreciate almost all genres to some extent)
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote: pop = popular music. Different generation/decades but still the popular music of the time. The stuff you would hear on top forty station across the nation.
That's not quite true. Eventually pop turns into oldies. I'm not sure where the cutoff is, though.
Posted by Da_Goat (Member # 5529) on :
I'd say 25 years, probably.
Posted by beatnix19 (Member # 5836) on :
quote: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- pop = popular music. Different generation/decades but still the popular music of the time. The stuff you would hear on top forty station across the nation.
That's not quite true. Eventually pop turns into oldies. I'm not sure where the cutoff is, though.
I disagree to an extent. Yes they are considered oldies but they still qualify as pop because they were the popular songs of that time. Once pop, always pop. They just get an additional tag after so many years. Notice I say additional not replacement. Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
I agree with beatnix.
For instance, Leslie Gore is both an oldie AND pop. Songs can be labeled multiple things.
-Bok
Posted by skillery (Member # 6209) on :
quote:There's no excuse for <<not>> knowing about the British Big Three.
Yes, Genesis, and Marillion.
Posted by thrak (Member # 5499) on :
Why no King Crimson?
Posted by cochick (Member # 6167) on :
Music doesn't get old - it just gets remade or re-released and then kids look at you funny cos you know the words.
EDIT: I think Avril Lavigne would turn over in her grave if she heard her work being called pop - or is that wishful thinking - j/k
[ March 04, 2004, 06:12 PM: Message edited by: cochick ]
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
Like it or not, Avril's music _is_ pop. It's more alternative than punk, but if she wants to call it punk, then it's punk-pop.
And if she disagrees, we can fight. I've got a whole foot over her.
Posted by littlemissattitude (Member # 4514) on :
quote:My students all assume that I listen to country music because I'm white. It's fun to shock them with my current knowledge of hip hop.
I get the same thing from a lot of people. Either that, or they think I do because I'm over 30. Many times, I've wished I had a camera when people find out that I listen to Metallica or Red Hot Chili Peppers or any number of other non-country bands. And the thing is, I really don't like much country music at all - most of the old stuff is too twangy for my taste, and a lot of the new stuff seems to me to be just pop with a southern accent.
And, as far as the pop or not debate - I've always thought that pop is just rock without real passion. Which means that the same song can be pop or rock, depending on who sings it and how they interpret it. And the same singer can work in both genres. For example, as far as I'm concerned, some Elton John (usually his more recent stuff) is pop and some (the earlier albums)is rock.
Third: Beatles, Stones, and Who? Apples, oranges, and pineapple. All great in their own ways.
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
My roommates make fun of me because I'm too snobby to listen to pop, but I secretly enjoy "Genio Atrapado" and have it on a world music playlist.
I also sometimes turn on Destiny's Child and TLC when I'm cooking and no one else is home. For some reason, you have to cook to either 90's dance music or hip hop.
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
They also make good exercise music.
Posted by fiazko (Member # 5812) on :
quote: My students all assume that I listen to country music because I'm white.
So if I look Hispanic, am I supposed to like Latin music? Somebody please tell me that the older we get the less we "judge a book by its cover."
Posted by skillery (Member # 6209) on :
Pop is canned music from a factory. Hire some studio musicians, pay someone to write the music, pay someone to write some lyrics, pay a marketer to re-write the lyrics in order to sell more, hire some backup vocalists, pay some chick to do the lip-sync for the music video and “live” tour.
Posted by Sweet William (Member # 5212) on :
Elton has been pop probably since that "21 at 32" album (please correct me if I am wrong about the title, because I am too lazy to look it up).
He's also adult contemporary (which is basically saying "pop music for the over-38 set).
BTW: My guilty pleasure (and I can't believe I am confessing this) the "Toxic" video by Ms. Spears. Man, that thing is hot.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
I figured it out. "Pop" music is not absolute -- it's relative to the age of the observer. It's pop music if you can remember listening to it when it was new.
For me, 50s and 60s music is not pop -- it's just oldies. For me, it requires some other label like oldies or classic rock.
As a side note, I find it interesting that as I get older, I listen to more and more music that my parents always listened to. I look in the mirror and see myself turning into an old fogie before my very eyes. Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
I still disagree. Songs can be oldies and pop.
For instance, the Kinks are oldies and Rock, Beach Boys oldies and Pop.
I don't see why they can't be both.
-Bok
Posted by pH (Member # 1350) on :
There's nothing wrong with hiring songwriters. It's a much more common practice than most would think.
Besides, as I've said before, it's called the music _industry_. Musicians need money, too. And if somebody offered to give me the kind of money that Britney Spears makes for shaking my ass in front of a few hundred thousand people, I'd take it in a heartbeat.
Posted by zgator (Member # 3833) on :
It looks like it's time for another Hatrack donation fund.
Just how much is it going to take pH?
Posted by drumsntolkein (Member # 6095) on :
I personally try to stay away from pop myself......Anyone into Tower of Power?
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Poo flavored bubble gum is not much fun!![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
I've got a whole foot over her.
![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)
![[Angst]](graemlins/angst.gif)