Believe it or not, this is a spin-off from the Morning After Pill. (I said I might consider using it because I think it would be a better course than if I started beating my kid who isn't potty trained.)
The title Potty training in a Day came up. I actually have this (or whatever the correct title is). The idea is to use a doll and teach the child to teach the doll to potty. By this process the child will internalize the info better, in theory.
The thing is, we have a specific challenge with #2. Do they make dolls for this purpose?
Posted by Sachiko (Member # 6139) on :
What's wrong with beating children?
(kidding, kidding)
Posted by lcarus (Member # 4395) on :
Dunno, but it's a great book.
er, um, insofar as potty training books can be great
um, I mean, as potty training books are judged
::leaves thread::
Posted by Sachiko (Member # 6139) on :
My four-year-old is a rather odd duck.
I know he has sphincter control because we tried the Naked Day method. We've tried EVERYTHING. M&Ms, lollipops, "everyone else is going in the potty!", "Don't you want to wear underwear like Daddy's?", putting him in underwear and leeting him sit in it, making him change his own diapers...
He does the last one very well. Closes up the diaper, sticks it in the Diaper Genie, washes his hands, everything.
He doesn't care about other rewards (he's like a little Ghandi, I swear; he seems to just go without whatever I try to entice him with). THe only carrot that works is playing HALO on the XBox.
Thing is, though, he gets so engrossed in the game that he forgets what he's doing and pees his pants again.
*sigh*
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
What is the naked day method?
And I think most kids have accidents for several months after they're in big kid underwear permanently.
Sachiko, you don't live in Tucson do you? You could be my cousin!
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
pooka, the part of the technique I think is most effective in that book is that the children must clean up their own messes. If they pee on the floor, they are guided through cleaning up the mess. Same for peeing their pants. Guided assistance, not doing it for them.
I suspect, given how little fun it is to clean up #2 -- especially by yourself (with verbal guidance and encouragement) when you're just a little guy -- it wouldn't take very many mistakes for a child to get the picture.
My son would probably kill me for sharing this...but he had a long term problem with bedwetting. The authors of Toilet Training in Less than a Day commented that bedwetting usually resolves itself with their technique, but that wasn't the case with us. At least it didnt' seem so. Eventually I figured out that I was doing too much to help. The problem resolved itself after my son had some training sessions on how to do laundry, and gave him a choice to strip his bed and do his laundry right when the accident occurred or do it in the morning.
I'm about to go get another copy of the book...the copy I used with my son I gave away a long time ago, and I think my 22mth old daughter may be getting ready to start training. She pulled her pants down last night in church. Embarrassing, but funny. Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
psi, yeah, I think they do too...I'll never forget my then 8 year old son getting so engrossed in a game he peed his pants. At school.
I didn't need to say anything, though I about bit a hole in my tongue stopping myself.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
Ayayaye Distraction of videos and computer are definitely a problem. His favorite reward is juice, but the inevitable effect of that... makes the problem worse. Anyway, we have small progress now and then, but sometimes it's a long time in between any glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel.
I've had two people recommend cold showers after any accident. It seems a little inhumane to me.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
My cousin (another one) has a daughter who poops in the floor to get back at her parents. I get mad just thinking about it. (She's fully potty trained.) I suggested she make her clean it up and she said "She doesn't care!"
I am guessing she only tried it once or something because I think cleaning up your own poop repeatedly would be a good reason to stop doing it.
Posted by jeniwren (Member # 2002) on :
PSI, another tactic *on top* of having her clean up her own mess is something like this: Plan something really fun the child would love to do. Chuck E Cheese, or something like that. Then call a babysitter. And have a conversation like this with the child:
Mom: Honey, we have something fun planned today. Chuck E Cheese!
Child: Yay!
Mom: But I have sad news for you, sweetie. (pause with sympathetic look, maybe put an arm around child) You aren't going. Daddy and your brothers and I are going, but you aren't.
Child, utterly disbelieving, has a fit for a minute then screams WHY!
Mom: Well, sweetie, it's a very sad thing, but you remember the other day when you pooped on the floor? Well, I would just be too worried you'd do that at Chuck E Cheese, and then I would be too embarrassed to be there, with everyone knowing I'm your Mommy. So you're not going. Sara (the babysitter Child doesn't like) is here to be with you while we're gone. Maybe next time I'll feel like I can trust you not to poop on the floor.
Child has fit. We leave and have a great time and come back and tell her all about what she missed, heavy on sadness that she couldn't be there, and how much she was missed.
Repeat this once more with a different activity.
It's always given with a lot of kindness, no anger, just sorrow that the child has put himself in the predicament. And not saying a word of admonishment about pooping on the floor. The kid will figure it out and explaining why the pooping is wrong just gives the kid an opportunity to get mad at you, when you really want them to be mad at themselves for making a bad choice.
(I think I could actually do the above after I'd had a day to get over wanting to throttle the child. )
Posted by Sachiko (Member # 6139) on :
PSI-
Nope, I live in Colorado Springs.
Why could I be your cousin?
(are you just sayin' or actually offering? )
Posted by Fitz (Member # 4803) on :
Like most things do, this thread reminded me of Family Guy.
quote: Peter Griffin: I'm looking for some toilet training books. Salesman: We have the popular 'everybody poops", or the less popular 'nobody poops but you'. Peter Griffin: Well, you see, we're catholic... Salesman: Ah, then you'll want 'you're a naughty, naughty boy, and that's concentrated evil coming out the back of you'.
Posted by Sachiko (Member # 6139) on :
How funny! My husband and I always say that that's why babies are so wonderful: because all the evil comes out in their diaper.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
Sachiko- The way you described your child and the fact you said "odd duck" remind me of a cousin of mine. Not the one from the example below (she has a three-year-old daughter) but a different one with a four-year-old son.
Jeni- Holy, that is a good plan. I will remember that if I have trouble with my child.
I wish I could say the same for my cousin, but part of the problem with the child in the first place is the fact that there is a huge power struggle...and more often than not, daddy takes the little girl's side.
The situation would end up one of two ways.
1. Mommy says the babysitter is coming. Girl screams and cries. Mommy says "You can go but if you ever poop in the floor I'll beat your butt." I should also point out that she would also not carry out with the NEXT threat either.
2. Mommy actually goes through with bringing the babysitter. Dad accuses Mom of something ridiculous, they fight for ten minutes. Girl gets to go, hangs onto her hero Daddy all night and periodically sticks out her tongue at Mommy.
It's the worst situation ever. It makes me physically sick to see any encounter between any of these family members. I babysit the girl once a week and she's a terror, but at least she behaves better for me than when her Mommy arrives.
Posted by Sachiko (Member # 6139) on :
Boy, at least I can be thankful for that. My son is strange but he's definately not a brat.
I've noticed that most really bratty kids have that imbalance and inconsistiency in their life. One of my friends has a almost 4-year-old who's a snotty, defiant little bully, courtesy of her inability to exercise control as her mother.
Of course, that little girl suddenly behaves better at my house than at hers because I don't let her get away with hurting the littler kids.
Hmm. Anyways.
The thing that both scares and reassures me is that my son is just like my husband. He even looks like a Xerox of his baby pictures. Apparently, my husband didn't potty train until he was four. *shrug*
Although I have high hopes for the daughter who's like me; I potty trained at fourteen months. Woot!
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
The girl's mother that I'm talking about, I heard she potty trained at eleven months. Is that even possible? Isn't it more likely that her mom just held her over the potty? There's no way my eleven-month-old could walk to the potty, pull down her pants and go, let alone know when she had to go at all.
Posted by Sachiko (Member # 6139) on :
Whew! I sound really full of myself!
It's not that my friend's kids are bratty, adn it's not that she doesn't recognize how bratty they are. We can't choose our kids, and we can't alwys control them.
It's that she doens't seem to care when her kids leave marks on mine, and persists in talking about what bad behavers mine are and what little geniuses hers are.
*deep breath*
So, back to potty training! Posted by Sachiko (Member # 6139) on :
The Japanese start holding their kids over the toilet at four or five months, I've heard.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
Why do people with terrible kids always think they're really great? This girl I'm talking about always says "Please" and "Thank you" and her mom thinks she's great but really she's sticking her tongue out at you when you turn around.
At least I have no such delusions. My kids really ARE great. That's what everyone tells me, anyway.
Posted by Sachiko (Member # 6139) on :
I find that the brattiness of the child is really defined by the attitude of the parents. Every child has a bad day now and again, but the real brats have parents who don't even acknowledge the bad behavior and apologize on their children's behalf.
Ooops, I'm sounding self-righteous again.
Can I complain? I have a friend whose #2 child is the same age, within a month of my #2 child. Her #2 started talking early and the pediatrician said offhandedly,"Wow! Sounds like you have a little genius on your hands!"
My friend really took that comment to heart and keep talking about how amazing her little #2 is. Nevermind that MY #2 paces hers; nevermind that mine can count four times as high and walked earlier; nevermind that mine is affectionate and hers bites mine. No, I have the brat, and she has the genius. And she doesn't stop talking about it.
Sorry, but that felt really good to confide. I'm not really competitive, but when someone insults my kids, it's hard to get my hackles to lie flat. And one of the things she asks me about all the time is when my four year old will potty train.
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
Say, "My child is so busy being brilliant she doesn't have time for petty things like the potty. She's redefining physics as we speak. SHHH! Genius at work!"
Posted by Sachiko (Member # 6139) on :
LOL
I keep thinking of snarky things to say to her (one wimpy possibility: "If your daughter is so brilliant, ask her to stop biting mine!") and then I feel guilty; then I get mad again and want to really let 'er have it, then I reason with myself, then I think I should be fair to her and me and be honest about how her comments (not just about the kids; they're about me and my husband too) make me feel.
THe thing is, the chick is either very passive agressive or very niave. Those are sneaky little digs, or they're just little flashes of how little she honestly thinks of my family. I'm inclined towards the latter.
It's been the major issue on my mind the past few days. It's just so hard to bring up little snarky comments she made last week; that makes me look like the big ogre. All she has to do to weasel out of it is bat her eyelashes and say she didn't mean to be hurtful.
Which puts me in the position of waiting like a vulture until she's insulting and patronizing again, and tryin gnot to be a deer int eh headlights again when I need to speak up.
Ideas?
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
Oh my gosh...I know you were kidding but it gave me the worst feeling.
My mom-in-law's insane neighbor did that to her dog. She was too lazy to take it outside but was tired of it making messes in the house, and used that as an excuse not to feed it. She was clinically insane. She cried so hard when the dog died...it was really....weird.
Posted by Sachiko (Member # 6139) on :
Yeah, that post was making me ill too. Sorry. I was trying to calm down after being mad at my friend, and to concentrate on the posts.
*sigh* I'm so immature and foolish sometimes.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
Surely you mean your second child and not your #2 child.
As you may or may not have deduced from the other thread we've had an education in child abuse and letting something happen to your child is the same as doing it. I just thought I'd mention it because I didn't know until last year. Posted by Sachiko (Member # 6139) on :
Education in child abuse?
Posted by lcarus (Member # 4395) on :
What other thread?
I read a book that talks about how to potty train infants. It takes longer than a day, to be sure! And no, the babies can't walk to the toilet, clean themselves, etc. But they can be trained to indicate when they need the potty, and so not need diapers.
![[Angst]](graemlins/angst.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Distraction of videos and computer are definitely a problem. His favorite reward is juice, but the inevitable effect of that... makes the problem worse. Anyway, we have small progress now and then, but sometimes it's a long time in between any glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
)
![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
And no, the babies can't walk to the toilet, clean themselves, etc. But they can be trained to indicate when they need the potty, and so not need diapers.