posted
Have a couple questions about food. If dishes are no longer useable, can you give them to a non-jew?Can you use the same dishwasher for both set of cookware? If you start out the day with milk. are all the rest of the day- milk meals?Lived in Chicago 198o to 1979, enjoined all kinds of food. Butera was a small chain store, just 3 stores back then. One Wednesday I asked the butcher if there were any stewing hens left. He told me yes and then said I didnt know you were Jewish. I laughed and said just like chicken and noodles, he said the Jewish ladies always came in on a Wednesday for stewing hens, and never come in on Thursday, because all the hens would be gone.
Posts: 28 | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by jaysedai6: Have a couple questions about food. If dishes are no longer useable, can you give them to a non-jew?
Sure.
quote:Originally posted by jaysedai6: Can you use the same dishwasher for both set of cookware?
Not according to most Orthodox authorities.
quote:Originally posted by jaysedai6: If you start out the day with milk. are all the rest of the day- milk meals?
No. After most dairy things (exception: hard cheese) there is either no required waiting period or some people have a custom of waiting one hour. So you could easily have a latte with breakfast, a dairy lunch, and a meat supper. Or even a meat lunch and a dairy supper, as long as there was at least 3-6 hours (varies by family custom) in between.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Thank you very much.I can get bagels and smoked salmon here in Iowa, no chicken liver mix in this town of 25,000. Maybe I can find a Jewish deli in Des Moines or Iowa City.
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posted
There used to be a very nice kosher deli and market in Des Moines. Not sure if it's still there.
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Bookmark the page, thank you so much. Could you tell what the chicken liver mix is called? I am 73 and and what it is, is stuck somewhere in a space in my brain and lots of papers are piled on top.
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posted
It can be called several different things, but I think it mostly just gets sold as chopped liver. (I can't tell you for sure because I hate the stuff.) Certainly if you ask for chopped liver they should know what you mean.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Well, I got the Guide for the Perplexed on my Kindle for much cheaper than the bookstore had it (A different translation than the one you recommended, but still). I got two chapters in and realized a copy of the Tanakh would probably also be a worthwhile investment, since the translations differ so radically on some key verses (I have an NIV Bible and a NRSV Catholic Bible, but they don't help much when reading JEWISH philosophy). So far, so good. Thanks for the recommendation!
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posted
Definitely not. Others may disagree, but I find JPS entirely too dependent upon Christian translations.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Framing the question: many LDSs feel alchool is not only improper for a member to drink, but fundementally, morally wrong. Thus they will not, or at least prefer not to buy beer, wine, etc... even when it is for others since they don't want to support something they find morally wrong.
Question: is this a common sentiment as well in the Jewish community as it relates to non-Kosher food? For example, would someone have an issue buying a ham salad for a friend they knew really liked ham salad and was coming over for dinner that night?
posted
I won't have unsealed containers of non-kosher food in my home, and I certainly wouldn't serve it. But that's not because of what you're asking.
As far as giving non-kosher food for someone, if they are a non-Jew, there's no problem. So if there are non-kosher samples in a box of something I bought, I give them to my housekeeper. But I wouldn't give them to a Jew, whether they keep kosher or not.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote:I won't have unsealed containers of non-kosher food in my home, and I certainly wouldn't serve it. But that's not because of what you're asking.
Why is it then?
quote:As far as giving non-kosher food for someone, if they are a non-Jew, there's no problem. So if there are non-kosher samples in a box of something I bought, I give them to my housekeeper. But I wouldn't give them to a Jew, whether they keep kosher or not.
So it wouldn't bother you at all to fork over money specifically to buy non-Kosher food (not just in addition to Kosher food because it's packaged that way, but with the intent of purchasing the non-Kosher portion) to give to someone else who isn't Jewish?
quote:I won't have unsealed containers of non-kosher food in my home, and I certainly wouldn't serve it. But that's not because of what you're asking.
Why is it then?
Too easy for things to get confused, for my kosher dishes to get non-kosher food on them, etc. It would turn what should be a relaxing, fun event (sharing a meal with friends) into a stressful one.
quote:Originally posted by Hobbes: So it wouldn't bother you at all to fork over money specifically to buy non-Kosher food (not just in addition to Kosher food because it's packaged that way, but with the intent of purchasing the non-Kosher portion) to give to someone else who isn't Jewish?
I'm having trouble coming up with a scenario where I would do this, but in theory.
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quote:Too easy for things to get confused, for my kosher dishes to get non-kosher food on them, etc. It would turn what should be a relaxing, fun event (sharing a meal with friends) into a stressful one.
Makes sense. Thanks.
quote:I'm having trouble coming up with a scenario where I would do this, but in theory.
It's your close, non-Jewish friend's birthday, and after months of dieting she really wants to take this day off her plan and have a BLT with you on the Plaza at which you feel you should treat her since, you know, it's her birthday. How's that?
In the LDS-framing this comes up for people often when non-member, relatives or friends are coming to stay for a few days (or something) and you both want to be hospitable and are aware that they like to drink coffee in the morning/have a beer with dinner/whatever.
quote:It's your close, non-Jewish friend's birthday, and after months of dieting she really wants to take this day off her plan and have a BLT with you on the Plaza at which you feel you should treat her since, you know, it's her birthday. How's that?
Just cause I wanna make sure I have it right, let's test my answer: Just as long as they're not a jew themselves. If they are, it doesn't matter if they are a practicing jew or not, you're not supposed to help them break the rules
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:Just cause I wanna make sure I have it right, let's test my answer: Just as long as they're not a jew themselves. If they are, it doesn't matter if they are a practicing jew or not, you're not supposed to help them break the rules
That's the way I understand Rivka's answer as well. But I want to be sure; my question was really: do any signficant portion of Jews feel that either: a) the very act of purchasing non-Kosher food is wrong or b) by purchasing non-kosher food you are supporting an immoral endevour and thus is wrong (albiet indirectly).
quote:I know plenty of Mormons who keep a bit of wine or Scotch on hand for social occasions.
As do I. In fact, I've been one of those Mormons, but there's a lot who won't buy alchool at all either.
quote:I'm having trouble coming up with a scenario where I would do this, but in theory.
It's your close, non-Jewish friend's birthday, and after months of dieting she really wants to take this day off her plan and have a BLT with you on the Plaza at which you feel you should treat her since, you know, it's her birthday. How's that?
Nope. I avoid going to non-kosher restaurants if at all possible, and every close friend of mine knows that. I'd be happy to take her somewhere kosher, though.
I could see getting her a gift certificate, though.
quote:Originally posted by Hobbes: do any signficant portion of Jews feel that either: a) the very act of purchasing non-Kosher food is wrong or b) by purchasing non-kosher food you are supporting an immoral endevour and thus is wrong (albiet indirectly).
It can be problematic for a religious Jew to purchase non-kosher food (not only can't I eat it, I can't get benefit [defining this can get complicated] from it either), but there is absolutely nothing wrong with a non-Jew purchasing, cooking, or eating non-kosher food.
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What are the implications on you if this story turns out to be true? Are you going to be held responsible for eating a non-kosher hot dog, or are you OK since you did your best to keep kosher?
Posts: 2804 | Registered: May 2003
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posted
So exactly how diligent do you have to be to remain blameless in the case of fraud or accident? It sounds like you're pretty well read on how your food is processed if you knew that HI wasn't trustworthy.
What if you had a friend that ate tainted food from HI that they could have avoided if they'd done your level of research? Or what if one of the companies that you do trust has issues that you're unaware of? Does it all come down to personal conscience, and if so, what is the incentive to spend a lot of time thoroughly exploring the situation?
I mean, I realize that it's impossible to be 100% positive that you've never touched anything unclean in your life. But there is a spectrum between the guy who takes a bite out of a mystery sandwich and thinks, "this doesn't smell like pork," and the guy who's crawling through air ducts uploading pictures of production lines to Wikileaks. Where do you draw the line?
Posts: 2804 | Registered: May 2003
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posted
That's why there are companies that provide supervision, like the O-U, OK, Heart-K, etc., etc. They are referred to as hechsherim (singular: hechsher).
I have rabbis I depend on (my main rabbi and one whose specialty is kashrus) to whom I direct questions regarding any hechsher with which I am not already familiar.
I also subscribe to several email lists which notify me of irregularities (e.g. http://www.kashrut.com/Alerts/), things to look out for, and so on. Major items on those lists are likely to also end up in weekly synagogue newsletters (I'm on about 6 of those lists, for various reasons (mostly social)) or other community email lists.
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Would an exception be made for stone crab claws, since the claws grow back? (This is a serious question . . . I live in stone-crab country!).
The most conscientious crabbers only harvest one claw per crab (leaving one so it can feed and defend itself), then return the crabs to the water to heal and reproduce. Yeah, not much fun for the crabs, but I imagine it beats being dead.
(And, yes, I know crabs aren't kosher!).
Posts: 21 | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Annie Mayhem: (And, yes, I know crabs aren't kosher!).
And as far as I know, all the animals with the ability to regrow limbs are non-kosher ones, so this is not really a meaningful question.
Nonetheless, I see no reason why the fact that an animal can regrow a limb should be a reason to make an exception to forbidding ever min ha chai.
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posted
What do "Orthodox" Jews (inverted commas mean "orthodox", "quite orthodox" or "Jews that care about their religion") think of Jews that are unorthodox? What do they think of Jews who converted to other religions?
Let me expound- I, atheist, asked my best, catholic, friend, how would he react if I converted to Protestantism or Islam. He answered that he would be very happy, because this way I'd be closer to God. Is such errr... ecumenism, for a lack of better word, acceptable?
What do you personally think?
Posts: 723 | Registered: Dec 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Szymon: What do "Orthodox" Jews (inverted commas mean "orthodox", "quite orthodox" or "Jews that care about their religion") think of Jews that are unorthodox?
As a group, or as individuals? I have some serious, quite negative feelings about some of the non-Orthodox groups of Jews, but those feelings are primarily directed at their leadership, not at the rank-and-file. I have friends and relatives who are various flavors of non-religious or non-Orthodox. I think their religious beliefs and practices are incorrect. They presumably think the same about me.
quote:Originally posted by Szymon: What do they think of Jews who converted to other religions?
They are deluded. Once you are a Jew, you are always a Jew. It is a covenant, an unbreakable contract. They can deny it, but they are still bound by it.
ambyr, isn't it?
gnixing, I am quite aware of the situation in Germany, but I have no idea what you are asking me.
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rivka, I just want to know your thoughts about the situation. To me, it seems to be an appalling situation, but you seem to have always been well able to communicate logically rather than emotionally and I'm curious as to your view either in support of the outrage or in support of the decision made by the German courts.
Posts: 494 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Germany tried to kill all the Jews in the 1940s. Most of those who survived got the hint and emigrated. Germany now appears to be determined to make it so uncomfortable to be a Jew (or Muslim) living there now that those remaining will emigrate as well.
It's not just an anti-Jewish thing; it's an anti-religious thing, and only one example of anti-religious laws and rulings in Europe in the past decade. It's frightening and horrifying.
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quote:Originally posted by rivka: I think their religious beliefs and practices are incorrect. They presumably think the same about me.
Would it be appropriate for me to offer a non-Orthodox Jew's angle on this, rivka? It's your thread, and I don't want to intrude. But I don't precisely think of Orthodox Jews' beliefs and practices as being "incorrect," and I don't think I'm alone in that.
Posts: 650 | Registered: Mar 2005
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Okay, I'll give it a shot. I (raised Conservative, by parents who were respectively raised Orthodox and Reform, and currently probably closest to Reconstructionist in outlook although I still go to Conservative shul--none of which groups I make any claim of being able to speak for, just giving some background) tend to think of religious practice as both a way of binding a community together and a personal conversation between an individual and G-d. I would never describe someone else's decision to observe halakha as "incorrect." I might describe their belief that I need to follow the same practices as incorrect, but I assume the practices they follow are correct for them, based on their relationship with G-d and their local community.
So that's practices. On the matter of beliefs, yeah, we're going to be in mutual and irreconcilable disagreement there.
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quote:Originally posted by rivka: Germany tried to kill all the Jews in the 1940s. Most of those who survived got the hint and emigrated. Germany now appears to be determined to make it so uncomfortable to be a Jew (or Muslim) living there now that those remaining will emigrate as well.
It's not just an anti-Jewish thing; it's an anti-religious thing, and only one example of anti-religious laws and rulings in Europe in the past decade. It's frightening and horrifying.
I agree completely, but only with the second part. What do you mean by Germany? The government? Or the people? Are you accusing them of antisemitism? Killing Jews is one thing and disallowing circumcision is something different. While I personally think it is unwise not to allow circumcision, I can comprehend why people want to stop it. It's a broader problem in Europe. This continent as a whole is extremely leftist. There seems to be less and less time and place for religion, in schools, in public places (France and Muslims- just as outrageous, I think), and so on. I don't think this anticircumcision project has anything to do with antisemitism, though.
Posts: 723 | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
Thanks rivka, that's been my understanding as well. However, I've been having conversations with some very atheistic folk who argue that the ruling is about protecting infants and their rights to choose, and preventing a 4000 year old barbaric tradition, not about antisemitism. I'm not an expert on Germany and the 1940's Jews, but I suspect that the Nazi party used similar arguments to justify their actions.
Posts: 494 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Based on what I've been reading in the German press, this isn't reflective of attitudes that are widespread among Germans. It certainly isn't "leftist" as the left wing has been the most vocal in decrying the ruling and has been strongly advocating a law that would protect the religious practice of circumcision.
The ruling itself was in regard to a case brought against Islamic parents. It seems to be driven not by liberals atheists but by the Christian right wing who are becoming progressively Islamaphobic.
[ July 16, 2012, 04:17 PM: Message edited by: The Rabbit ]
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
I don't think this is a topic to debate the issue! A different topic should be created for such. I bring it up here because I was interested in rivka's particular perspective as an intelligent and educated Jewish woman.
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posted
rivka, a recent thread was bumped that has your perspective on my topic linked. I will review that rather than ask you to rehash. Thank you!
Posts: 494 | Registered: Mar 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Szymon: What do "Orthodox" Jews (inverted commas mean "orthodox", "quite orthodox" or "Jews that care about their religion") think of Jews that are unorthodox? What do they think of Jews who converted to other religions?
Let me expound- I, atheist, asked my best, catholic, friend, how would he react if I converted to Protestantism or Islam. He answered that he would be very happy, because this way I'd be closer to God. Is such errr... ecumenism, for a lack of better word, acceptable?
What do you personally think?
As someone who spent a few years in a reform congregation, I have to agree a bit with the orthodox stance. It truly is to make assimilated Jews feel better.
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