Instead of creating a short lived thread every time I come across a piece of space related news that I find interesting, I thought I'd create this thread, and just post to it as I found interesting things on the subject that I wanted to share.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Remember that Stardust mission that was going to do a really close flyby of a comet? It was successful, happily.
[Edit--here is NASA's official page for the Stardust probe.
[ January 05, 2004, 12:42 PM: Message edited by: Noemon ]
Posted by Suneun (Member # 3247) on :
I love NASA. And I'm super-thrilled that the Mars Spirit rover is doing so well. I can't wait for more photos!
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
my planetary science friend claims that there is a webpage where you can get a live feed, of whatever the rover is seeing, but I haven't found it yet.
AJ
Posted by peterh (Member # 5208) on :
Here's an interesting tidbit about a recent possible meteor passing through our atmosphere:
[ January 05, 2004, 02:11 PM: Message edited by: aspectre ]
Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
Personally, I think that the Brits are probably responsible for the success of the latest NASA probe. Mars has been eating probes almost as fast as we can throw them at the planet.
The Brits fed one to the red hungry beast on December 25th. So when our probe got there it was still full from its last meal.
Let's hope it's hunger is still sated when the second probe lands. Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
Mmmm... Lander...
Dude, quit making me hungry!
Posted by Sopwith (Member # 4640) on :
Sndrake!
That was priceless!
Posted by Suneun (Member # 3247) on :
Aaah, why aren't more people enthusiastic about the Mars landing? It's so awesome! They must have incredible technology up there, and it's ready to poke around Mars.
Yey!
Mmmmmars.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
I'm really excited about the Spirit (and the Opportunity)! in Physics today my teacher let us watch the documentary on making it, see, this is why I take physics, for those occaisionnal glimmers of facination that come along once every two months or so.
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
Actually, most of the tech is anything but "cutting edge". The propulsion and landing systems stuff excepted.
The main data antennae is using UHF, sending data at roughly the rate of a 9600 baud modem. Even the probe OS is a commercial OS, I believe.
*Wonders how many people even remember what UHF is*
-Bok
Posted by Suneun (Member # 3247) on :
As I know nothing of technology that can travel millions of miles... are there alternatives to UHF that they ought to have used?
anyway back to...
Pretty, pretty! I love NASA. =)
Posted by matt (Member # 236) on :
Whaddya mean, who remembers what UHF is?
It's a movie with Weird Al, right?
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
From what I can tell, the media jumped the gun on the Beagle II.
They reported that the British were unable to pick up a radio signal from the lander using the radio telescope at Jodrell Bank. But the lander wasn't designed to transmit signals to earth, it was designed to transmit signals to the orbiter, which should relay them to earth. That won't be possible until January 7th, when the orbiter is in the correct orbit.
So give it a couple of days, OK?
(BTW, Jodrell Bank also wasn't capable of picking up the Vogon destructor ships passing overhead, but I digress...)
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
UHF?
No, I don't believe in flying saucers.
(see who gets THAT reference)
Posted by eslaine (Member # 5433) on :
Old news, I know. But I said that I'd post some cool articles I've been following.
Thanks, and enjoy!
Posted by screechowl (Member # 2651) on :
quote:Aaah, why aren't more people enthusiastic about the Mars landing? It's so awesome! They must have incredible technology up there, and it's ready to poke around Mars.
It is awesome! My wife and I made a special point of following the landing just like we did long ago when Surveyor 1 soft landed on the moon.
Fantastic.
I hope that Beagle can be contacted so that England can share in some of the success.
By the way...What mission was the first soft landing and pictures from the moon? Was Viking the first to soft land send back pictures of Mars??
Posted by eslaine (Member # 5433) on :
Viking was the first to send back pictures from the surface of Mars.
I don't know about The Moon though, it may have been one of the Prospectors, but I'll have to look it up!
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Looks like the Soviets got there first, Erik.
Posted by eslaine (Member # 5433) on :
I knew that the soviets landed first.
Did Lukenod (not sure of spelling) take pictures too? (the article does not say...)
[ January 07, 2004, 01:07 PM: Message edited by: eslaine ]
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
I thought the Luna probes took pictures -- maybe not?
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
Lunokhod
From Energia 1959 - Launch of interplanetary probe Luna-1, which accomplished the first lunar fly-by 1959 - Interplanetary probe Luna-2 was the first to reach the Moon's surface. It delivered there national symbols of the USSR. 1959 - Interplanetary probe Luna-3 took the first pictures of the far side of the Moon and transmitted them to Earth 1961 - Launch of the first interplanetary probe Venera-1 to Venus
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
I accidentally caught Nova last night, and it was quite a dramatic display, complete with visuals from the Jan 3 2004 landing. My daughter was so excited she says she's going to be an astronaut now.
Posted by eslaine (Member # 5433) on :
Thanks for the closure, aspectre!
*trades uncapitalized cult handshake with "a"*
Posted by Derrell (Member # 6062) on :
Space.com has a gallery of pictures from Spirit.
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
Yeah, it looks like Beagle really is a no show. That's too bad.
But I still think the media jumped the gun.
Posted by eslaine (Member # 5433) on :
You know, this thread has an interesting, space related quality.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
You know Erik, you're right! It's subtle, and I probably wouldn't have picked up on it myself, but it's there.
Posted by eslaine (Member # 5433) on :
Kinda "newsy" too!
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Now that I just don't see!
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Wow, that is very cool!
Posted by Javert (Member # 3076) on :
Am I the only one who is waiting impatiently for someone to finally begin planning a manned base on the Moon?
I mean, it seems the next logical step. We have a space station that people live in for months at a time and we've even had a space tourist. So why not put a resort on the Moon?
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Just this morning I heard that Bush had proposed a lunar base, to be used as a launching point for missions to other points in the solar system. I haven't found a really good article on it yet, and since I heard it as I was waking up, it's possible that I dreamed some of the better details. Here's the story so far:
Looks like we'll know more in a week or so.
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
As posted to the Austin Astronomical Society email list ... > > > > Gusev Crater (MPI) - A spokesthing for Mars Air Force denounced as > false rumors that an alien space craft crashed in the desert, > outside of Ares Vallis on Saturday. Appearing at a press conference > today, General Rgrmrmy The Lesser stated that "the object was, in > fact, a harmless high-altitude weather balloon, not an alien > spacecraft". > > The story broke late Saturday night when a major stationed at nearby > Ares Vallis Air Force Base contacted the Gusev Crater Daily Record > with a story about a strange, balloon-shaped object which allegedly > came down in the nearby desert, "bouncing" several times before > coming to a stop, and "deflating in a sudden explosion of alien > gases." Minutes later, General Rgrmrmy The Lesser contacted the > Daily Record telepathically to contradict the earlier report. > > General Rgrmrmy The Lesser stated that hysterical stories of a > detachable vehicle roaming across the Martian desert were blatant > fiction, provoked by incidences involving swamp gas. But the general > public has been slow to accept the Air Force's explanation of recent > events, preferring to speculate on the "other-worldly" nature of the > crash debris. Conspiracy theorists have condemned Rgrmrmy's > statements as evidence of "an obvious government cover-up," pointing > out that Mars has no swamps. They point to the release of secret > government memos detailing attempts to discredit reports of the > landings by alien space craft. The memos discuss stategies to avoid > troubles similar to those caused by the War of the Worlds radio > program of years ago. The program, which featured a sensational > story of gigantic oxygen breathing two-eyed invaders from Earth, > sparked planet wide panic. > > Local residents like Driv Rhodo, who lives in the area of the > alleged landings, are even more sceptical. "I seen it with my own 5 > eyes" claimed Rhodo last week. "I've lived here over 300 years, most > of my adult life-form. Them things used to be few and far between > but lately they come in every few years or so. The government wants > to bury the truth but I can tell you what's real. The Earthlings are > going to invade and the government is spending our hard earned tax > dollars on press releases and denials instead of preparing for the > battle to come." A spokesthing denied any government involvement in > the disappearance of Rhodo, who has not been seen since shortly > after the interview, claiming "Any sentient being knows that a > planet with the concentrations of water and oxygen found on Earth is > a deadly and inhospitable environment for the formation of life, > much less intelligent life. The fear and consternation caused by the > unfounded and wild speculations of citizens like Rhodo are a > traitorous disservice to the citizens of Mars." >
Posted by eslaine (Member # 5433) on :
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
Have the "unedited" versions of the lander's pics started showing up on the web yet? The ones with the cities and Martians and all that stuff not photoshopped out like Nasa always does before they issue them? <grins>
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Oh Dan, that's great! Did you compose it and post it to the Astronomical Society's list, or did you just get it from there? Either way, it's brilliant.
Here's something interesting--they've found a pulsar that is orbiting another pulsar. This is useful for two reasons: it allows scientists to further test the theory of general relativity, and also is providing a unique opportunity to examine the magnetosphere of one of the pulsars, while the other pulsar's beam of radiation is passing through it. Plus, it's cool!
Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
quote:"Mars now is our sandbox, and we are ready to play and learn," said JPL director Charles Elachi.
Thanks sndrake! I saw that Time Magazine article last night at the grocery store, but I was already paying when I saw it, so I didn't get the magazine. I was planning on buying it tonight. You just saved me a couple of dollars!
[ January 22, 2004, 12:41 PM: Message edited by: Rappin' Ronnie Reagan ]
Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
Shazbat! Hope the planet didn't get its appetite back. Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
I was just coming to post that same story. Here's Space.com's article. I expect it's pretty much the same as RRR's, but I haven't read hers yet.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Here's a newer one saying it had to do with a thunderstorm in australia that disrupted communications so that the instruction signals never got to mars.
AJ
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
I wish that were the case Bana--that's actually an older story. Now they're thinking that the rain in Austrailia didn't have anything to do with it.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
quote: NASA's Spirit rover stopped transmitting data from Mars for more than 24 hours, mission managers said Thursday, calling it an "extremely serious anomaly."
It just cracks me up whenever I hear the word "anomaly" used to describe anything. I learned the meaning of the word from Star Trek years ago.
So -- it just hits me as SO "star trekky" to hear NASA say this...
((I think the Martians zapped it. They kill all our probes in order to stay hidden))
FG
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Kind of a stupid seeming primary mission--littering, basically--(althought the photos will probably be useful), but there is a commercial space venture slated for launch later this year.
[ January 29, 2004, 11:00 AM: Message edited by: Noemon ]
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Remember that ion engine powered space craft that the European Space Agency is testing out in anticipation of using something like it to send a probe to Mercury? The engine is having trouble with flame-outs.
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
How can an ion engine "flame" out?
And do two of them sound like a tie fighter?
Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
Hey, we have two on the planet now! And it looks like at least one of them works!
Basically, Glen, they just screwed up with they were building the thing, and didn't put in capacitors in certain key circuits. As a result, when the thing gets bombarded with high energy protons from the sun there's an energy spike, which causes the computer to shut the engine down. They're writing a software fix to take care of the problem by having the computer also switch the engine back *on*.
Yep, if they rigged two of the things up, it'd sound *exactly* like a TIE fighter. It'd also blow up really easily, unless they bent the top and bottom of the wings at about a 45 degree angle (in which case it would become indestructible).
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
That is so cool.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
See, now the timing on that one is a bit problematic. My kids'll be too old to go, and in all likelihood, my grandkids will be too young.
Ten years earlier OR later would be much better.
Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
OK, the two rovers are doing their thing on Mars, digging into the rocks and soil and taking pictures. Big goal is to look for evidence of past water on the planet.
How many besides me have this kid inside them that is hoping the rovers surprise everyone by sending back a photo of a fossil?
I tell the kid inside he's foolish, but he's really stubborn. Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
I hadn't thought of that, but my god that would be cool!
Yes, it would be cool. Fortunately, the kid calmed down - originally he was rooting for photos of Martian artifacts.
I know I should be linking to stuff here, but I wanted to throw something else out. It's pretty obvious that the Mars agenda as Bush spelled it out is unrealistic - it's just not something we can afford to commit to in the near future.
But are our choices really limited to embracing a nationalistic, chauvinistic goal of Mars and abandoning the dream altogether? Why couldn't we throw in with the European Space Agency (if they'll have us and our money)? We could be a participant in a broader dream that an increasing proportion of humanity invests in. Our share in the project would probably be both manageable and justifiable. We'd just have to give up the goal of having it be a solely American dream.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
If you want to really get your inner child excited, how about photos of human remains on Mars? Hmmm...shades of...whoever it is that wrote Gentle Giants of Ganymede and the other books in that series.
I agree that it makes the most sense for us to try to reach Mars as a multinational cooperative effort. That pretty much goes against every fiber of Bush's being though; anything like that would have to wait until he left office, I think.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
When people say we can't afford it, I only know that we can't afford NOT to do it. I do think that NASA is mostly an ineffectual money-waster, but some way must be found for us to do it, or our species most likely won't make it through the next few centuries. Whatever it costs, we really have to do it. There isn't any doubt in my mind about that.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Whoa, cool! Largest volcano in the solar system! I wonder what that would compare to on earth? Like, how much bigger is it than, say Mt. Ranier?
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
quote: Olympus Mons is an extinct volcano and the largest known volcano in the solar system.It rises about 16.5 miles above the surface of the planet -- that's 3 times higher than commercial airliners fly. It is 372 miles from edge to edge at the base -- that's larger than the state of Washington! The crater in the center is 40 miles wide from rim to rim. Olympus Mons is an extinct volcano and the largest known volcano in the solar system.
Apparently the reason why the volcanos get so big on Mars is because Mars doesn't have plate tectonics like the Earth.
AJ
[ February 12, 2004, 11:41 AM: Message edited by: BannaOj ]
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
The lower gravity has to help too.
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
I remember when I flew out of Seattle once, and we had been climbing through clouds for a long time, we were WAY up in the air, and I looked down and saw something white that didn't look like clouds, but it was just right below us not very far away, and it turned out it was snow on Mt. Ranier. That is one freakin big mountain.
They should have named Olympus Mons Fist of God like in Ringworld. Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
*bump*
And there's reasons - Mars news, black holes, diamonds in the sky, etc.
quote:NASA's Opportunity rover sent back new images from Mars showing that small spheres previously found on the surface also exist below, in a trench the rover dug. Hints of salty water were also found in the trench, but much more analysis is needed to learn the true composition.
Meanwhile Opportunity's twin rover, Spirit, is about to dig a trench of its own in order to investigate soil that sticks to its wheels, suggesting the fine-grained material might be moist.
Opportunity made this close-up images of spherules embedded in the wall of a trench it dug with one wheel. These spheres are more reflective than those previously found on the Martian surface.
In a press conference today, officials said the soil at both locations could contain small amounts of water mixed with salt in a brine that can exist in liquid form at very low temperatures.
So if there's brine, can shrimp be far behind? Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
I always thought there was something Martian looking about Sea Monkeys!
I tried to post the article about moon sized oxygen-carbon crystals in dying stars the other day, when the story first broke, but Hatrack seemed to be having some trouble, and it didn't go anywhere.
I've got one for you sndrake, just give me a minute to find it...
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Here we go!
Sndrake's inner child, rejoice! Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
I have to tell a story here.
I've mentioned my friend who is getting her PhD in Planetary science.
Anyway she's fallen in love with another planetary science PhD.
So they have ordered the ring.
What is the rock? No, not diamond, though it is equivalently expensive. It is from a Martian meteorite that hit Earth. They know it is from Mars due to isotope analysis and the fact that Mars rocks can hit Earth but Earth rocks don't spin out and hit Mars.
I think it is pretty cool and totally appropriate!
The wedding is going to be sometime this summer.
AJ
Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
Ah, the inner child is telling me "I told you so."
I'm trying, as gently as I can, to explain to him about the Weekly World News.
Don't know why I bother - he still keeps me up on Christmas Eve listening for Santa on the roof - and we don't even have a chimney. Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Even bigger - hopefully - is the NASA press conference in DC today scheduled for 2pm ET. They have promised to report on "significant findings."
OK, I know this is for space-related news, but what are the chances the administration specifically picked today for whatever NASA is going to announce to upstage coverage of the primaries?
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
I know, I know, I know, sndrake! *excited
[Edit: I'm excited about the announcement. I have no opinion on the timing of the announcement, as I am trying very hard to stay cheerful while I can. ]
[ March 02, 2004, 11:26 AM: Message edited by: ClaudiaTherese ]
Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
Sorry, CT - it's really really hard for me to refrain from looking at almost anything through a political lens.
Fossils! or better yet, news they caught something crawling around in the brine! Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
I understand that too, sndrake. My comment wasn't meant as a rebuke, but more of an apology. It's a luxury to be able to afford ignoring politics, and that's a luxury which few have.
I've just got this tremory happy-vibe thing going, and I am a sucker for being happy. Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Yeah, happy is good.
My guess is that NASA will be announcing positive proof of water on Mars. That seems the most likely. I'd love for there to be a photo of a Sea Monkey in a reverse diving suit tapping on the lense of one of the rovers though.
As for the timing, it'd have to be pretty big news to upstage the primaries, but I wouldn't be surprised if you're right.
It'd be cool if they were announcing that SETI had received a clear signal from a sentient alien race, wouldn't it (that's my inner child getting worked up--take him with a grain of salt)?
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Or they could be announcing the final casting for Ender's Game. Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
Or taking it with a drop of brine?
(Replying to Noemon)
[ March 02, 2004, 11:46 AM: Message edited by: sndrake ]
Posted by aka (Member # 139) on :
Major announcement? Who? What? What's going on? <all excited>
Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
Since then, I found one link that actually announced the time of the press conference, which will be 2 pm ET.
Posted by aka (Member # 139) on :
sndrake, it is very hard for me to hold on to my starry eyed idealism when I get too involved in politics, too. I refuse to let go of it, though. Whenever I catch myself with cynical thoughts popping into my head as my first reaction (and this applies to politics, and on the job, and everywhere) I just have to back up and take a wider view.
I think about Heidi on her mountain in Switzerland with her goats, and Frodo and Sam in Mordor, and the civil rights protesters on the road from Montgomery to Selma, being turned back at the Edmund Pettus bridge, and I remember that the people who made things happen in history were the ones who kept their heads clear of that sickness of cynicism.
I am willing to rethink my methods or my goals, but I'm not willing to quit believing in the existence of good, whether it be among my companions or my adversaries.
Anyway, not that there's anything I can possibly teach you about fighting the good fight, I'm sure. On the contrary, you are an inspiration to me. But I guess it sounded like you could use a little affirmation. Posted by aka (Member # 139) on :
Wow, that's frustrating! I watched CNN and even during the introduction, before they really got to showing the specific findings, they cut away saying it was obviously too technical and they would listen and translate it into something us stupid masses could understand later.
Okay, so I see that they have concluded the crater was once full of water. I can't get Nasa TV because I only have an old cruddy laptop with not much disk space left, and no media player even for audio.
I guess I'll have to wait for the text articles and read them then. Grrrr at tv! When you turn to it for news, it lets you down! Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
quote:Scientists examining what NASA's Opportunity is showing them about Mars rocks are seeing into the past, and what they're seeing indicates water once flowed there.
The outcrop right next to where Opportunity landed holds evidence that the rocks have spent time drenched in liquid water.
Members of the Mars Exploration Rovers' international science team presented that evidence to news reporters at NASA Headquarters in Washington on March 2.
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
Sweeet...
-Bok
Posted by aka (Member # 139) on :
Yay! I think I'll go hang out at JPL! This is too cool!
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Isn't it! No space faring sea monkeys, but this is fascinating.
Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
No spacefaring sea monkeys - yet!
You forgot to say yet!
The child within insisted I type this. Posted by Amka (Member # 690) on :
Duh! They are simply using the Nasa logo for coloring. And some colored insulation.
Why not put a color strip on the next one so that it can turn back and get a real color adjustment.
Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
quote:Anyway, not that there's anything I can possibly teach you about fighting the good fight, I'm sure. On the contrary, you are an inspiration to me. But I guess it sounded like you could use a little affirmation.
Anna Kate,
thanks, but I really am cool. Just aware that most people don't analyze things from my perspective. At least I had the good sense to keep my thoughts to myself (for the most part) during all the "gay marriage" threads. Most of what fascinated me concerned tactics, strategy, and the probable effectiveness of tactics on both sides - in terms of both attitudes and laws.
Probably would have ended up with partisans on both sides hating me.
/thread derailment...
So, is there a possibility that Spacefaring Sea Monkeys could be developed into a delicacy like "popcorn shrimp?" Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
This is probably the single most positive indication that evidence of life will be found on Mars:
LONDON - The information coming in from the Mars rovers is exciting for NASA (news - web sites), but it's ending some of the action for bookies in Britain.
The bookmaking firm Ladbrokes announced it's stopped taking bets on the question of whether there was ever life on Mars.
NASA scientists said yesterday that the rover Opportunity found strong evidence to suggest at least part of the Red Planet once had a wet enough environment to sustain life.
A Ladbrokes spokesman says the latest odds in favor of past life on Mars were 16-1. Back in the '70s, when the first bets were placed, the odds were 1,000-1.
He says he expects that scientists will find evidence of past life on Mars within the coming years.
Trust a bookie to know when it's time to cut losses. Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
I always thought it was going to be called Persephone.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
How did I miss all of the updates to this thread over the past month?
You know, sndrake, the Weekly World News accepts submissions. Maybe Hatrack should put together an article about spacefaring sea monkeys and submit it? Maybe we could work up some angle by which their fondest desire is to become part of an Earth entre?
Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
Kind of a "we come to be served up to mankind" sort of angle?
A subsequent article could reveal that investigative reporters - at great personal risk - have discovered that a light sautee is actually an optimum incubation temperature for alien larvae. The gourmet treat is actually the new invasion of the pod people! Posted by skillery (Member # 6209) on :
An article from March 1, 2004 issue of Aviation Week & Space Technology about harnessing zero point energy for space transportation.
Posted by peterh (Member # 5208) on :
*ba-da-bump* SETI Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Allen funding a SETI array is fantastic, isn't it?
I was just reading about China's lunar rover, which they intend to launch in 2012 to scout for a lunar base location. Very cool, but I'm a little puzzled. The article says that among other things, the rover would carry "seismological gear to register quake activity on the moon". I was under the impression that the mood was seismologically inactive--that its core was cool, and there was no movement of plates or anything of the kind. So...what would be generating the seismological activity they seem to be looking for? Are they just being cautious (never a bad idea), or is there something obvious I'm overlooking?
Posted by peterh (Member # 5208) on :
I was about to say, "Hasn't mach 7 been done?" but it turns out that the X-15 only hit mach 6.7.
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
In belated news, apparently some time in the past week all five naked-eye viewable planets (Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn) were visible in the sky at the same time.
-Bok
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Still are, I think.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Right out of Red Mars! LOL!
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
If you've been wanting a fairly detailed list of current and upcoming space missions from the world's space agencies, you'll find this article from Wired useful.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Solar Booty Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
Nice article, but I get a little bit nervous when any articly uses the words Space, Probe and Booty in the same sentence. Sounds like a South Park Alien episode.
Posted by Zamphyr (Member # 6213) on :
It's about time. I was getting tired of hearing about the X-prize for years without anyone actually launching anything. Now we can look forward to some actually manned testing this summer *crosses fingers*
Posted by Jim-Me (Member # 6426) on :
no one is commenting on this? I thought this was HUGE...
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Oh, it's definitely huge, and I'm very happy about it. I just don't have much to add on the subject at the moment.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
I'll wait until they actually get it up there. But still, this is a step in the right direction.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:"A known threat that can potentially destroy millions of lives and can be predicted to occur ahead of time, and prevented, cannot responsibly go unaddressed," he said.
Thank goodness people are finally paying attention. I didn't realize all those astronauts and people read hatrack, did you? Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Maybe ssywak pointed them in our direction! Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
quote:To remedy this, Schweickart said the US should "adopt the goal of altering the orbit of an asteroid, in a controlled manner, by 2015".
Please dear God tell me they're not going to do this someplace close to Earth. I don't want to hear anyone say "Oops" doing such a thing.
Dagonee
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
Sorry about that, chief. Missed it by that much.
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
A general question... anyone know what the current estimate for the # of galaxies in the universe is? (And, a related question, what the average # of stars per galaxy is?)
I've heard some #s for how many galaxies there are... but I kinda get the impression that no one's too concerned about making estimates since they get outdated pretty fast...
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
You read numbers that are all over the place, but I use 200,000,000,000 for the stars in the milky way. Does that count as a typical galaxy? It really depends on how small of a dwarf-galaxy you count as one galaxy. Do the magellenic clouds count as galaxies in their own right? Or are they just sattelite galaxies to our galaxy? Certainly there are enormous elliptical galaxies which are far bigger than ours, as well the dwarfs. So I guess it's reasonable to take the Milky Way as being of typical size.
As for galaxies in the universe, I don't have a number in my head for that, but I'm thinking it's in the same ballpark. On the order of hundreds of billions. It wouldn't surprise me if that was off by a factor of 1000 either way. Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
And remember that what we in the U.S. call a billion (10^9), the Brits call a thousand million. I think when they say billion they mean what we call a trillion or 10^12. That adds some confusion, for sure. The Canadians and Australians probably use the British nomenclature, too. Anything by Stephen Hawking or Freeman Dyson will use that terminology, I assume. Of the others, I'm not entirely sure who is from the U.S. and who from Britain. Kip Thorn is American, isn't he?
Posted by BYuCnslr (Member # 1857) on :
Fascinating stuff.
Posted by Telperion the Silver (Member # 6074) on :
Is Earth doomed to become another Mars? Is part of the reason that Mars is now desolate because it cooled faster than us, due to it's smaller size, and lost it's shields? How fast is the Earth cooling? How long do we have to get offworld?? Ahhh!!! Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Not wanting to waste an opportunity, I wanted to share the latest poop on a major problem in long-term space voyages.
Sewage you think of it. Personally, I'm flushed - this is excretely exciting! Pooped Out in Deep Space
quote:On a two-year trip to Mars, according to one estimate, a crew of six humans will generate more than six tons of solid organic waste--much of it feces. So what do you do with all that? Right now, astronaut waste gets shipped back to Earth. But for long-term exploration, you'd want to recycle it, because it holds resources that astronauts will need. It will provide pure drinking water. It will provide fertilizer. And, with the help of a recently discovered microbe, it will also provide electricity.
Like many bacteria, this one, a member of the Geobacteraceae family, feeds on, and can decompose, organic material. Geobacter microbes were first discovered in the muck of the Potomac River in 1987; they like to live in places where there's no oxygen and plenty of iron. They also have the unexpected ability to move electrons into metal. That means that under the right conditions, Geobacter microbes can both process waste and generate electricity.
Posted by Architraz Warden (Member # 4285) on :
Derail: Jim-Me, I gotta ask. Did you attend the Air Force Academy, have friends that did, grow up in C. Springs, or something else?
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
I attened Academy Prep School, Graduated in '87, enteredt the Academy as Class of '91, went stop out, returned as '92, resigned in lieu of disenrollment for Honor in January of 1992.
On Edodo, if you frequent the site, I post as "Wannabe".
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
*and the crowd goes wild*
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
Huzzah!
Any photos yet?
-Bok
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
Yeah, Noemon -- do you have a link to a site that will be posting photos as soon as they get them back from Cassini?
Farmgirl
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
I don't yet, but I'll be posting a link as soon as I find one. I'm kind of camping out at space.com for the next little while.
Posted by Erik Slaine (Member # 5583) on :
I found a really grainy picture of the rings with interference patterns all over it.
Nothing to write home about...
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Better pictures are coming, barring disaster. Much better.
[ July 01, 2004, 01:30 PM: Message edited by: Noemon ]
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Double the planets, double the fun!
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
I'm so excited about Cassini! I was very scared of that maneuver of shooting through the ring plane while inserting itself into orbit. It seemed quite risky for several reasons, but thank goodness they've pulled it off!
Now we should get AMAZING pictures from Saturn for several years!!!!!!!!!!!
I can't describe how thrilled about that I am.
I was looking on the first page, going, "Where is the Cassini thread?" Then I saw this one and knew that Noemon had come through.
<Bows and does the special Knights of Noemon hand sign>
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
Hee hee Cassini was all I heard about this past weekend. I think I got to see some of the data before it even hit the presses. Though being surrounded by a bunch of planetary science grad students (at the U of AZ) would do the trick!
AJ
[ July 06, 2004, 05:00 PM: Message edited by: BannaOj ]
Posted by Insanity Plea (Member # 2053) on :
quote:"He sent a note saying 'I have solved the black hole information paradox and I want to talk about it'," says Curt Cutler, a physicist at the Albert Einstein Institute in Golm, Germany, who is chairing the conference's scientific committee. "I haven't seen a preprint [of the paper]. To be quite honest, I went on Hawking's reputation."
Though Hawking has not yet revealed the detailed maths behind his finding, sketchy details have emerged from a seminar Hawking gave at Cambridge. According to Cambridge colleague Gary Gibbons, an expert on the physics of black holes who was at the seminar, Hawking's black holes, unlike classic black holes, do not have a well-defined event horizon that hides everything within them from the outside world.
In essence, his new black holes now never quite become the kind that gobble up everything. Instead, they keep emitting radiation for a long time, and eventually open up to reveal the information within. "It's possible that what he presented in the seminar is a solution," says Gibbons. "But I think you have to say the jury is still out."
Gotta like the fact he can get time at the podium with a simple email like that.
Dagonee
Posted by Erik Slaine (Member # 5583) on :
*still in awe of the wheelchair guy*
That asteroid thing will also be more practice at rendezvous. Of course we are talking about a rather hot approach....
Posted by Insanity Plea (Member # 2053) on :
While that last link is very cool, I first read it as "spacecars" which would have been even cooler.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
That would be cooler.
My only concern with this technology is that NASA make sure that the space station that will fire the beam that will slow the ship as it approaches its destination actually, you know, works. Make sure that nothing is installed upside-freaking-down, that there is a consistent unit of measurement used by both the station and the ship, and other tricky stuff like this.
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
The savings in energy required by not having to move the energy source are huge. My concerns are similar. Imagine this conversation:
Pilot: "Mars station 1, this is ship alpha charlie tango. We are ready to initiate braking maneuver X-12."
*silence*
Pilot: "Mars station 1, repeat, this is ship alpha charlie tango. We are ready to initiate braking maneuver X-12."
*silence*
Pilot: "Mars station 1, do you copy?"
*silence*
Pilot: "Um, are you guys there?"
*silence*
Pilot (to the crew): OK guys, do you want to crash into Mars or head to Jupiter?
Posted by Sara Sasse (Member # 6804) on :
quote: Make sure that nothing is installed upside-freaking-down, that there is a consistent unit of measurement used by both the station and the ship, and other tricky stuff like this.
Awww, that's just crazy talk. No way would something like that happen in real life.
Posted by zgator (Member # 3833) on :
It would be pretty wild if they built the station around the wrong planet or something.
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
Hey, y'all, thanks for this thread. I've enjoyed it immensely and will still be looking up links for weeks to come. Imagine, all that happened while I was in outer darkness. I have no idea . . .
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:Awww, that's just crazy talk. No way would something like that happen in real life.
Yeah, it's not rocket science.
Quidscribs, glad you're enjoying the thread!
Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :
OK, a little something I don't get: if the ions being emitted from this station are being accelerated to a high enough velocity that they will actually push the magnetic sails hard enough to make the spacecraft get to Mars and back in 90 days, why aren't they also pushing the emitter backwards? Or is that not a problem?
Posted by eslaine (Member # 5433) on :
Good point. Even at low-thrust/high-contiuous specific impulse, there would still be a reaction.
But if the emitter were at the Moon's pole, that might not be a problem.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
quote: The Cassini flyby of Titan sent back the most detailed surface images, but the 1000 kilometer cloud formation near the south pole has scientists stumped.
Farmgirl
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
You beat me to it!
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Looks like a pretty good site too.
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
You're slowing down on the job, Noemon! FG
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
My Dad was part of this big Europa mission, a new and exciting satalite being sent out to Europa to make some observations, and then (and this was the part my Dad was involved in) try to figure out from the measurments if there was liquid water under the ice sheets. The proposal was accepted by NASA, then put off, then put off, then cancelled due to funding issues.
Hobbes Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
What does your dad do exactly Hobbes? That's really interesting.
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
Geophysicist at the University of Colorado, Boulder. One of the top men in his field. He's one of the leading experts on greenhouse effects, which is amussing since, despite being very liberal when it comes to the enviroment, doesn't much care about greenhouse effects, and what made him the expert is that his doctorate thesis is the bassis of almost all calculations on the subject.
Hobbes Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
But now I've derailed your thread into me being proud of my Dad...
sorry.
Hobbes Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
No problem. I'm almost always a big fan of thread derailment. If the derailment takes we can just start a new thread in the same vein as this one.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Nifty! Thanks for the update!
Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
Did the SCRAM engine test happen yet?
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
I'm not sure Dag, I'll have to look.
Looks like they've got the funding for a space tug in place.
Posted by ssywak (Member # 807) on :
It's about time!
NASA had plans for the OMV (Orbital Maneuvering Vehicle) over 10 years ago. Excellent idea (whether it's European or American)! And funding's good, too!
Posted by ssywak (Member # 807) on :
It's about time!
NASA had plans for the OMV (Orbital Maneuvering Vehicle) over 10 years ago. Excellent idea (whether it's European or American)! And funding's good, too!
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Yeah Steve, it seems like a pretty basic tool for a space program to equip itself with. Probably would have been a better investment to build a little fleet of these than build the international space station, I'd say.
Posted by kaioshin00 (Member # 3740) on :
quote: First Light: Faint object may be youngest star detected
Ron Cowen
Peeking into the dusty core of a dark cloud seemingly devoid of stars, astronomers have found a faintly glowing body that could be the earliest glimmerings ever recorded from a newborn star. If the object, spied by the infrared eye of the orbiting Spitzer Space Telescope, is indeed a fledgling star, it's the least massive star ever observed. It weighs in at less than one-thousandth the mass of the sun.
quote: Astronomers aren't certain how to classify the object, which resides 6,000 light-years from Earth in a dense core of gas and dust. The body may someday accumulate enough gas and dust to become a bona fide star. Another possibility is that the supply of material will run out before the object can achieve starhood, and it will become a brown dwarf instead, says Neal J. Evans of the University of Texas at Austin. It's also possible that the object is neither star nor brown dwarf, but something more exotic, he adds.
quote: New observations with ground-based near-infrared telescopes have ruled out that scenario, says Evans. Team member Tracy L. Huard of the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics in Cambridge, Mass., and his colleagues found a fan-shaped glow coinciding with the puzzling object. That glow is too feeble to have come from the more distant core and "strongly suggests the source is embedded in the L1014 core," Huard reported at the Spitzer conference.
The faint signal seen by Spitzer implies a "very slow and gentle" accumulation of material in L1014 that may indicate "a new way of forming stars," Evans says. The Spitzer team has found other candidates for young stars in several supposedly starless cores.
Star modeler Alan P. Boss of the Carnegie Institution of Washington (D.C.) says the low mass and luminosity inferred from the Spitzer observations are "quite consistent" with current ideas about the birth of stars. Says Boss: "Spitzer has found a good example of the earliest phase of star formation seen to date."
The OMV was intended to go out and grab satellites in higher orbits than the Shuttle could get to, and bring them back to the Shuttle or Station for servicing. It would then take responsibility for boosting them back up.
OMS vs. Space Station is really not an apt comparison. Apples and Wingnuts. The OMV was to be remotely piloted--no humans on board.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Ah. Thanks Steve.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Wow, busy day. I can't believe that I'm only now getting a chance to check my regular science sites. NewScientist has an article on the NASA's successful near-Mach 10 flight.
Posted by ssywak (Member # 807) on :
Just watched the NASA/Dryden video (thank you NASA, than you Cable Modem!)
It was like "Oh, well, we'll just strap some old rocket booster under the wing of a B-52 (again!) and take it supersonic."
2004: You want supersonic? Sure, how fast would you like it?
And then the 10 ft long X-43A disengages from the nose of the rocket, opens up it's gate, pumps jet fuel into the air stream and hits Mach 9.6!
W00t.
...and then, when it's all over, it goes and dumps in the water? Where's my scuba gear...?
[edited for spellnig]
[ November 18, 2004, 12:02 AM: Message edited by: ssywak ]
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
It's hard to believe those B-52s keep on trucking after all these years. What a durable design.
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
Well, Noemon -- we were talking about that yesterday over in This Thread and I had some questions about the flight for you....
but you never answered..
Posted by Sid Meier (Member # 6965) on :
I'm happy that the Mars lander is doing so well. I'll post a thread on how it'll only cost 22 billion$ to send a team of 4 to Mars. (And trust me, my sources are from NASA itself, however a certain faction of NASA wants to use a plan that will cost 450 billion dollars for less results)
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
You know, I don't have any idea how that's actually measured FarmGirl. That's a good question.
As for the top speed a human body can endure, I think Dag's right--it's more about the rate of accelleration than it is the speed itself. We're all moving at mind boggling speeds already, if you think about it.
Steve, can you shed any light on Farmgirl's question?
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Saw a great article in the paper today. It's written by an advisor to the company who wants to build the solar sats, so it's totally biased. But I'm all for any plan that gives me the potential to be a weather girl for another planet. "The travel forcast for Jupiter today is..."
quote: But it turns our that two of the Sunshine State's most famous attributes, space vehicles and sunshine itself, could create permanent "hurricane shields" for the southeastern U.S., and Florida's leaders could begin encouraging insurers to finance these shields during their special legislative session this month.
The Space Island Group (SIG) in California is proposing to build a new type of rocket and 40 passenger space planes using the same engines and fuel tanks now built for NASA's space shuttle. SIG's economics secret is that they'll leave each rocket's hollow 747-sized fuel tanks in orbit when empty, outfit their interiors as living and working quarters, and lease them to commercial tenants. These lease revenues will let them carry solar satellites components and assembly personnel to orbit at no charge.
Hurricane protection and space tourism in one package deal?! What's not to love? I need to write my state rep.
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
How about a logistical nightmare when these things eventually have to be brought back to earth, and just generally all the space garbage that may be added (which is already pretty bad).
-Bok
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
Maybe we could use the current space junk for fuel and spare parts?
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
You know you've been spending too much time at LiveJournal when you see that headline and your first reaction is to wondering if http://www.livejournal.com/users/spiritrover/ has posted about it yet.
Posted by eslaine (Member # 5433) on :
Thanks Stormy!
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
West Wing on NBC is going to have something on asteroids tonight. I don't have any details, just have seen "asteroids" on their trailers this week.
Posted by Alcon (Member # 6645) on :
Frost! There's frost on the Oppourtunity!
Posted by AvidReader (Member # 6007) on :
The Boeing Delta 4 didn't get the satelite into orbit. Boeing thinks it can fix the problem before this fall when it's supposed to begin carrying satelites into space. Here's hoping.
Posted by eslaine (Member # 5433) on :
And just 3 more days before Huygens smacks into Titan!
Posted by eslaine (Member # 5433) on :
Finally.... Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
I know! I hope the thing activates properly when it hits Titan's atmosphere.
Posted by eslaine (Member # 5433) on :
Do you have a link on that?
Posted by Insanity Plea (Member # 2053) on :
How the earthquake changed earth not only did the North Pole move 2.5 centimeters, but our days are 3 microseconds shorter too! Satyagraha
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
I *thought* our days felt like they'd been 3 microseconds shorter!
Elaine, I'll see what I can dig up.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Here you go Erik--this is the most recent article I came across.
[ January 11, 2005, 12:30 PM: Message edited by: Noemon ]
Posted by Insanity Plea (Member # 2053) on :
And this is the site from JPL@NASA for Cassini-Huygens. Satyagraha
Posted by Trisha the Severe Hottie (Member # 6000) on :
I hadn't heard about the deep impact mission. That's what I get for not keeping closer tacks on the space related news.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Whoo-hoo! It survived entry!
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
Oh! You beat me Jake! I meant to mention something about that yesterday.
Isn't it so cool??
Farmgirl
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
Question about this, though.
Why did they have the small transmitter on Huygens transmit directly back to the dish on Earth -- instead of having it transmit back to the Cassini mothership, which could then boost the signal back to Earth?
FG
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Yeah Farmgirl, I'm a little confused too. In the article I linked to on the 11th, the final paragraph read
quote:The Cassini spacecraft has a three-hour window to listen to the signals transmitted from Huygens; after that time has elapsed, Cassini’s trajectory will have carried it out of sight of the probe (and the probe’s battery will be used up soon after). Cassini will then turn its antenna toward Earth and start transmitting what it has received from Huygens.
The New Scientist article that I just linked to today, though, clearly indicates that the probe is transmitting directly back to Earth. Hmmm.
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
Most deep space probes have a low-energy ID signal, that it sends back to earth (or maybe just non-directional) to give the team info as to it's status. It's a usually a slow data stream. Likely it's data antenna was set up to send to Cassini to save power/increase throughput.
-Bok
[ January 14, 2005, 10:17 AM: Message edited by: Bokonon ]
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
That makes sense.
Posted by Insanity Plea (Member # 2053) on :
raw huygens data The first image pretty much sums up what's there. satyagraha
Posted by Ralphie (Member # 1565) on :
That Huygens info kicks major buttocks.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Doesn't it? I love this kind of thing.
I found a kind of interesting article on Space.com talking about the possibility of aliens actually having visited Earth, among other things. Some of their assumptions are unbelievably poorly thought through, I think, but it's interesting nonetheless. Here it is.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
is a slightly more polished version of the same thing. I'm excited though cause I've met some of the AZ people working on this!
AJ
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
Yep, Huygens is very cool. -290 degrees F to be precise.
The Washington Post had this in their article today:
quote:Titan holds a particular fascination for scientists. Not only is it the only moon in the solar system known to have a significant atmosphere -- about 1 1/2 times as dense as Earth's -- but it is also regarded as "pre-biotic," with characteristics that Earth probably possessed before life evolved.
Very exciting.
A few heat lamps A bit of God's Starter Mix® And who knows!!!
Don't know if this has been linked yet, saw it on slashdot.com:
quote: NASA officials have claimed they performed a risk analysis before deciding to cancel the last space-shuttle servicing mission to the Hubble Space Telescope, but no such analysis was ever done.
Worse, sources told UPI's Space Watch that NASA also has ignored at least one proposal to reduce the risk of sending a shuttle crew to Hubble - in order to justify its decision. Over the past few weeks, several NASA officials have stated publicly the agency's decision to cancel further servicing to Hubble was made on safety issues alone, not cost. [..cut]
Yet, one day later, NASA historian Steve n Dick gave a presentation at the American Association for the Advancement of Science annual meeting in Washington, in which he described the process by which that decision was made and revealed that, in fact, no formal risk analysis had been completed.
What crap Apperently, safety is a catch-all for ???? I don't know. If no study was done, I don't know what criteria was used by former NASA administrator Sean O'Keefe to cancel the Hubble rescue missions. Manufactured BS? Hubble has only been the most productive optical telescope in history, it's not like it's worth salvaging. :roll-eyes don't do it, maybe disgust-eyes: What a complete cop-out from a once-proud and productive gov't agency. Posted by Mormo (Member # 5799) on :
As if asteroid or comet impacts and global warming weren't enough causes of the apocalypse to worry about, I just saw a new one: dark matter clouds could have been the cause of previous mass extinction events. I already knew that ordinary matter clouds could cause devasting climate change.
Wow, my rant about NASA Sunday morning was surprisingly coherent considering I was up all night drinking vodka. Morbo
[ March 07, 2005, 03:44 AM: Message edited by: Mormo ]
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
That was a fascinating article, plaid!
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
Yeah, pretty cool, huh?
Pretty much all the good links I ever post come from Neil Gaiman's website. I could start "The 'Interesting, Neil Gaiman Related News' Thread" Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
Just to point out, Ennis's results on homeopathy have been pretty much debunked. Here's the BBC trying to replicate her experiment for the Randi prize (and I think other people have tried, too, and if they have none have managed to reproduce her results in a supervised fashion): http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/s827502.htm#transcript Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
You ought to plaid--I'd love that!
As for the New Scientist article, yeah, that was really interesting. I've actually been waiting for my print copy of the issue that contains this article, because I didn't think it was available online. I've been feeling all tantalized when I've seen the headline for that article on the cover of the magazine (in their "this week's issue" photo that's always in the sidebar on their site). I'm glad I was wrong.
Posted by xnera (Member # 187) on :
I might have to break down and subscribe to New Scientist because I keep reading interesting articles on their website.
Somehow I have difficulty in believing the bit about this not being a test of a weapons system designed to forcibly decommission satellites.
Posted by ssywak (Member # 807) on :
DART appears to be a re-make of the old OMV (Orbital Maneuvering Vehicle) that was canceled in the late 80's. It's a great idea, and about time!
What NASA seems to have gotten away from is the mechanical interface on the front. The OMV was designed with the ability to change out various payloads, using a quick-disconnect. It could be fitted with a three-clawed grapple set designed to mate up with receivers built in to the back end of the Hubble. It could also attach to a Robonaut (Flight Telerobotic Servicer) payload, or to a large, spinning capture-hand (with a 15-20 foot span) to grab errant satellites.
Oh well, better late than never.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Well, hopefully the XSS-11 is having better luck than DART did.
Posted by twinky (Member # 693) on :
quote:forcibly decommission
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
The newly confirmed NASA administrator Michael Griffin will reconsider a rescue/repair mission for orbiting Hubble telescope! Yay!
quote:[during his confirmation hearings] Regarding a possible shuttle mission, Griffin noted the decision made by his predecessor, Sean O'Keefe, not to send a manned spacecraft to service the telescope "was made in the immediate aftermath of the loss of Columbia. When we return to flight it will be with essentially a new vehicle, which will have a new risk analysis associated with it.
"At that time I think we should reassess the earlier decision in light of what we learn after we return to flight," he said.
Odd that the unhealthy side-effects of inhaling moondust haven't been widely mentioned until now. And apparently, snorting marsdust would be about as nasty as snorting Drano.
[ April 26, 2005, 02:58 PM: Message edited by: aspectre ]
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
Anybody know how high MUBLCOM is orbiting? Cuz if it's in LowEarthOrbit, DART gave it one hellacious bump to boost the trajectory 5.5kilometres/3.4miles to 9.25km/5.75mi
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
Jupiter and Saturn split, bumping Neptune into planetesimals, planetesimals into Moon's pockets.
Posted by kaioshin00 (Member # 3740) on :
So, it's a really, really big comet that doesn't get close enough to the sun to ignite? Kinda like Pluto?
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
Evaporate rather than ignite, but yeah, seems like Pluto is just another BIG comet along with the other Cubewanos and Plutinos.
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
A day passes and yet another transNeptunian object. This one is definitely bigger than Pluto, even if one assumes that it bounces light as well as the most reflective natural object in the SolarSystem. Apparently it is bright enough to be seen through high-end amateur telescopes.
[ July 30, 2005, 08:53 AM: Message edited by: aspectre ]
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
I was just searching for this thread to post the same news!
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
Wow, a tenth planet! I'm so excited! I wonder what they'll name it, and if the IAU will give their stamp of approval to the proposed name?
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
BTW, calling an object a planet is somewhat debatable. There is no sharp dividing line between an asteroid, planetoid, huge comet and a planet, especially Pluto, which many astronomers don't consider a planet. But it seems only logical that if an object is bigger than Pluto, it should be called a planet. The estimate for the diameter of 2003 UB313 is 3000 km, bigger than Pluto's 2,320 km.
If it was up to me, I would say that no object smaller than Pluto should be called a planet. Pluto should be the lower bound, and might as well be called a planet as it has been for the last 75 years.
Hmmm, some want to demote Pluto to planetoid status. BBC link While the idea has some merit, I bet it won't be popular enough, to the general public or to astonomers, to work, at least for the foreseeable future.
If many more larger-than-Pluto Kuiper Belt or Oort Cloud objects start popping up, that could change things. As well as give astrologers nervous breakdowns.
[ July 30, 2005, 07:19 AM: Message edited by: Morbo ]
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Since many people don't like considering Pluto a planet, and this one is bigger than Pluto, maybe it can replace Pluto as our beloved ninth planet?
My Very Excellent Mother Just Showed Us Nine _____? The possibilities are endless.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
No, I think we're stuck with Pluto due to it's long history of being called a planet.
quote:"If we were starting anew, undoubtedly Pluto wouldn't be labelled a planet," Professor Iwan Williams, of the IAU, told BBC News Online.
"But we have almost a 100 years of culture that says Pluto's a planet. So the IAU will set up a working group to try to ponder the imponderable."
from my BBC link above
That's a good mnemonic. I always liked the one for star types: Oh, Be A Fine Girl, Kiss Me.
O is the hottest group of stars, our sun is G, M is the coolest and smallest. Originally, the types were alphabetical according to temperature, but the early assumptions were wrong and they had to be reordered, with some letter types thrown out as irrelevant. The old labels stuck--much like the planet label sticks to Pluto.
Posted by Goody Scrivener (Member # 6742) on :
quote:If many more larger-than-Pluto Kuiper Belt or Oort Cloud objects start popping up, that could change things. As well as give astrologers nervous breakdowns. [Wink]
waitaminnit, we have Oort clouds? You mean Thread is coming???? How long do we have to build stone and metal shelters? And where are our dragons?
Posted by Starr R (Member # 8361) on :
Thanks for all the great links!
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
Grow your own in space.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Is this old news or how come Noemon didn't jump on it?!
[ September 16, 2005, 02:33 AM: Message edited by: Corwin ]
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
It's relatively new news, unless I'm mistaken. I read about it yesterday, or maybe the day before, I think; I just haven't been posting as many sciency type links lately.
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
A couple neat space books I've been reading:
The Grand Tour: A Traveler's Guide to the Solar System, 3rd edition by William K. Hartmann and Ron Miller. Like the title says, a tour of the solar system, looking at planets, moons, asteroids, Kuiper Belt Objects, etc. Neat facts, good explanations, some photos, and great scientific illustrations -- what it'd be like to look at Jupiter from one of its moons, what it'd be like to be in Saturn's atmosphere and look up at the rings in the sky... neat!
Moondust: In Search of the Men Who Fell to Earth by Andrew Smith. The author interviews the 9 surviving astronauts who landed on the moon. What the experience was like, what their lives have been since then... really interesting stuff, though it helps a lot to already know a lot of space history. And the author's style is pretty annoying -- sorta New Journalism/Rolling Stone-ish, he tells you way too much about himself (like, he'll tell you what he had for breakfast before he met with one of the astronauts). But if you can skip over that stuff, it's a fascinating book.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
quote:"Since the day we discovered Xena, the big question has been whether or not it has a moon," Professor Brown said in a statement.
"Having a moon is just inherently cool - and it is something that most self-respecting planets have, so it is good to see that this one does, too."
Heh.
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
The Saturn system is really weird. Take a look at Hyperion.
Okay, the surface is gonna take some explaining, but at least I can come up with a few ideas that might work.
But Hyperion's density of 60% that of ice leading to the NASA site's explanation of "a rubble pile consisting of 40% void" just doesn't work. Rubble would pack much tighter, leaving no room for that much void
Posted by naledge (Member # 392) on :
This is not really important news, but it's interesting to me. I just got my next work assignment....
Anybody played around with World Wind at all? Looks incredbily cool. I'll probably be downloading it tonight. Looks like it's been around for a year, but they've just released a lunar module for it. Very cool.
Posted by starLisa (Member # 8384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dan_raven: If "Xena" has a moon, will we be forced to call it "Gabrielle"?
I'd prefer Joxter.
Congratz and Good luck on the moon-rover.
You joke, but they did decide on Gabrielle for the moon. And it's Joxer, btw. A name I'd reserve for a planet or moon that's extremely annoying.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Has anyone linked to this event yet?
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:The 10-centimetre-tall robot, called Minerva (Micro/Nano Experimental Robot Vehicle for Asteroid), was designed to hop around the 600-metre-long rock, snapping close-up images with three cameras and taking temperature measurements of the surface.
Do you suppose it's also because Minerva's mother, Thetis, was turned into a fly by Jupiter (for the all to common reason that her child was prophesied to overthrow him) and when she was born he had worse and worse headaches until Vulcan split his head open and let her out?
I guess I'm a little disappointed they didn't describe her as being a decimeter.
Posted by Architraz Warden (Member # 4285) on :
Different expiriment, and at least they aren't trying to catch it on the way down this time. Anyone going to go watch for it?
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
Actually the star is believed to be too young to have planets in the sense of our SolarSystem. The article is about the discovery of oppositely-rotating inner and outer dust clouds. (Dust clouds are believed contain the material out of which planets are formed.) And probably more common during the early stellar&planetary formation process, and more expectable, than the article implies. Since planets traveling in opposite directions would gravitationally steal each others momentum, and thereby lower each others orbit, counter-rotating discs could be an explanation for how the hot jupiters formed.
[ February 18, 2006, 05:32 PM: Message edited by: aspectre ]
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
An interesting article on the development of new nomenclature for orbiting objects within the SolarSystem.
And it has been newly discovered that the "temperature" of dark matter particles within our galaxy would be ~10,000degreesKelvin*. But since a dark matter particle doesn't interact** with normal matter except gravitationally, it can't be assigned temperature*** except by analogy.
* A degree in Kelvin is the same size as one in Celsius -- ie 1.8degrees in the FahrenheitScale -- but the KelvinScale zero degrees is at AbsoluteZero while the CelsiusScale zero degrees is the freezing point of water.
** Or more accurately, interacts extremely rarely except gravitationally. A good analogy would be the neutrino, which can travel through a lightyear of lead before there is a 50% chance of it having hit a lead atom. And the less energetic that a neutrino is, the farther it could travel before reaching that 50% chance of collision.
*** And time for yet another airing of a pet peeve concerning science reporting for the general public: "about 6 miles per second (9km/s)" is disinformative in a way that it makes it hard to notice an interesting fact. 6 miles per second is equal to ~9.656 kilometers per second. And considering the "about", in this case it would be more informative to describe 6 miles per second as 10 kilometers per second. Due to a fortuitous coincidence in choices made for the duration of the second and the degree scale in Kelvin and the length of the metre, a first rule of thumb in translating a known speed into an equivalent temperature is: speed in metres per second approximately(~)equals degrees in Kelvin. Since one kilometre equals one thousand metres, "about 6 miles per second (~10km/sec)" would more accurately reflect the translation process into the 10,000degreesKelvin used within the article.
[ February 28, 2006, 02:13 PM: Message edited by: aspectre ]
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
quote: Scientists were also able to conclude that the universe is composed of about 4 percent real matter, about 23 percent dark matter, and about 73 percent dark energy. Nobody actually knows what dark matter or dark energy are, however.
Loved that bit about not actually knowing what 96% of the universe actually is yet.
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
Looking at the problem backwards leads to drawing the wrong conclusions about the nature of the Hubble constant. Google up Hawking no boundary Baez end universe Rindler horizon Schwarzschild bubble Hoyle Narlikar
Meanwhile, an 80lightyear"DNA"strand orbiting 300lightyears from the MilkyWay BlackHole.
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
A better explanation of the physics of the 80lightyear"DNA"strand.
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
Why ya don't wanna live in the stellar neighborhood of cannibals or the living dead.
Interesting simulation showing how protoplanets decrease the size of their orbits because of the formation process. Though I'm fairly certain that the hypothesized subsequent destruction is wrong cuz the modelers started off with the wrong parameters for the proto-planetary disk formed by the stellar ignition process.
You know, every time I see an article like this I think about how long it would take us to realize that some smallish celestial object was actually a ship or probe built by some alien civilization.
Hm...I'm guessing that I've already talked about that somewhere in this thread, but I'm too lazy to go back and see for sure.
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
Nasa achieves 3d BlackHole simulation with an explanation from UniverseToday (which messed up its link to the Nasa page).
Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
PASADENA, CA—NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory scientists overseeing the ongoing Mars Exploration Rover Mission said Monday that the Spirit's latest transmissions could indicate a growing resentment of the Red Planet.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
I was hoping you'd see the bump, Noemon.
quote: "Granted, Spirit has been extraordinarily useful to our work," Callas said. "Last week, however, we received three straight days of images of the same rock with the message 'HAPPY NOW?'"
**Should have warned that the article contains language that some people will find offensive.**
Posted by quidscribis (Member # 5124) on :
There's something bizarrely psychic going on here. I was thinking about this thread last night after I went to bed, a good four hours or so before sndrake bumped the thread. Posted by Architraz Warden (Member # 4285) on :
What, this hasn't been posted here yet? Must have been overshadowed by the moon base announcement / thread.
I hadn't had time to check the news today, Architraz Warden, so I hadn't seen that. Thanks for the link!
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
That's just a last minute coverup over a leak of the real story.
Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
This BBC article includes some cautionary notes about other - and possibly more plausible - explanations:
quote:Other scientists think it possible that gullies like this were caused not by water but by liquid carbon dioxide.
One of the reasons for favouring CO2 was that computer models of the Martian crust indicated water could exist only at depths of several kilometres. Liquid carbon dioxide, on the other hand, could persist much nearer the surface where temperatures can drop as low as -107C.
Prospects for life
Oded Aharonson, an assistant professor of planetary science at the California Institute of Technology (Caltech) said that while the interpretation of recent water activity on Mars was "compelling," it was just one possible explanation.
Aharonson said further study was needed to determine whether the deposits could have been left there by the flow of dust rather than water.
Posted by Architraz Warden (Member # 4285) on :
Ran across this today. Nice to see the little (relatively speaking I suppose) guys getting some development, even while a planet away.
Well, you know, the sun is hot; the sun is not a place where we could live, but here on Earth there'd be no life without the light it gives.
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
Did anyone post yet about the bizarre hexagonal cloud shape on the north pole of Saturn? That is just weird.
<sings along and bobs head> The Sun is a mass of incandescent gas...
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I always hum "Interplanet Janet" whenever I read this thread.
Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
In other news, it looks like there might be caves on Mars!
Big ones.
quote:Researchers say pictures from a Mars orbiter show holes the size of football fields that may be the entrances to subterranean caverns. If the claims prove to be true, such caves would be prime targets in the search for extraterrestrial life and prime real estate for future human settlements.
If this bears out, it's an exciting development, both in terms of exploration and possible habitation. It would probably be much easier to build secure habitats in stable caves, given the problems with radiation and duststorms on the surface.
(Link has pictures)
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
[Edit--crap! Beaten to the punch by the esteemed Mr. Drake by a couple of months!]
Cavern... Pfft. I know a missile silo when I see one!
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Pfft. Missile silo? That thing's clearly a pupil.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
If that's a pupil, who the heck is the instructor?
Posted by SoaPiNuReYe (Member # 9144) on :
Posted by BandoCommando (Member # 7746) on :
quote:Originally posted by rivka: If that's a pupil, who the heck is the instructor?
God?
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by SoaPiNuReYe:
Posted by Architraz Warden (Member # 4285) on :
I read about this yesterday, but it was lacking on the methodology and how the scientists came to this conclusion. The updated stories today make it look much more likely and offers some good theories and evidence.
I'm really hoping to see space exploration as an important plank in the upcoming presidential election. How hard is it to get a pro-space president?
I want to see people on Mars before I die!
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
MC -
You don't vote anyway, what's it matter? ....
I saw an article in the news the other day that the satellite that observes hurricane formations in the Atlantic was on the verge of failing and we have nothing to replace it. In other words, we're close to not having ANY warning system for hurricanes in the Atlantic. Anyone hear anything specific on this?
Posted by MightyCow (Member # 9253) on :
Ooooo! Space burn!
I need to know which candidate to impotently complain didn't win by a one vote margin. Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Fair nuff' Posted by TheGrimace (Member # 9178) on :
Lyr, I'm not sure on exact details of which satellite may be dying without a direct replacement, but I can positively confirm that there are still govt weather satellites monitoring the east coast for severe weather. One was just launched last year (GOES N) and is in good health.
doesn't suprise me if a given constellation doesn't have a replacement ready right away (though they generally try for that) but there are multiple constellations of satellites watching that kind of thing, and even if one dies often times it is possible to shift an existing satellite to cover it's slack (if it's in a more critical area or whatnot)
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Thanks for the correction there Grimace.
I suppose I was the victim of sensationalist journalism. Posted by TheGrimace (Member # 9178) on :
yeah, I don't blame you, just wanted to make sure there wasn't a hatrack movement of mass hysteria about the Bush administration ignoring hurricanes or something Posted by Shigosei (Member # 3831) on :
Damn. Not even an engine test, just nitrous tanks failure.
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
My commentary earlier elsewhere:
Tuesday, July 24, 2007 NorthrupGrumann is buying out ScaledComposites, which of course means goodbye to VirginGalactic. Like GM with its electric car, NorthrupGrumann will fubar SpaceshipTwo so badly that it'll set back civilian space flight for at least a decade. I'd LOVE to be proven wrong.
Friday, July 27, 2007 I said I'd love to be proven WRONG.
Posted by JLM (Member # 7800) on :
Compressed gas is dangerous, inert or not. Always, always, always perform regular inspection and maintainance.
Having NG run the ship might actually be a good thing. They ought to temper the cowboy culture at SC, and bring a little bit more discipline to their processes.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I sure would like to understand more about the new propulsion system they are trying with this spacecraft. One report said it was previously "only thought of in science fiction" Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I'm pretty sure the Dawn spacecraft uses an Ion Drive, which HAS been featured frequently on Star Trek type shows with space ships. Ion drives use a "slow and steady wins the race" idea. They speed up slowly, but the engine is constantly firing. It allows the craft to constantly have the acceleration and at the same time carry much less fuel than a conventional engine would.
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
It is funny that at the NASA site, they are calling that engine "The Prius of space"
quote: The engine is called NASA Solar Electric Propulsion Technology Applications Readiness. Most people in the deep space exploration business just refer to it as "ion propulsion."
Yep, sounds like it is a fascinating idea of a slow and steady electric engine that runs on solar power.
You would think, with that kind of technology available, we would be able to wean ourselves from oil here someday soon....
quote: "Hold a piece of notebook paper in your hand. The weight of that paper pushing against your hand is the same as the thrust provided by one of Dawn's ion engines -- at full throttle I might add," said Brophy. "If you had an ion engine firing here on Earth, it would not be able to push a skateboard across a sidewalk!"
from from HERE Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
Yesterday's APOD was pretty cool--2 galaxies millions of years after a collision/near encounter.
I've only begun to play with it, but I did find one flaw: one galaxy will always remain coplanar after the encounters with the 2nd galaxy, even when they are at 90 degrees to each other and equal mass. While the 2nd galaxy can be sprayed out of it's plane. This is a minor bug that was probably done on purpose to reduce the amount of computation.
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDNEV9EW06g Video comparing the size of planets to each other then to the Sun, then the Sun to other stars.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
Hey, They left out Uranus. I know Pluto is no longer a planet, but I didn't think Uranus was even under contention.
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
After a few telecommunications satelites get destroyed and we lose a some precious piece of technology that makes our lives easier, then we'll feel compelled to clamor for action. Either that or a military satelite will get hit, though I can't believe those things aren't already pretty well hardened beyond normal standards. Either way, this is typical. We think something as vast as space, like oceans or land or whatever is just too big to possibly be ruined, and we'll keep thinking that way until we can't anymore.
Maybe I'll be dead before we get to that point.
Posted by Juxtapose (Member # 8837) on :
Maybe that stuff'll reflect sunlight, lowering the global temperature.
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
A very cool movie of how jets are formed by active quasars. The associated article in Sky and Telescope tells more info. Apparently they've discovered exactly how it is that such jets can form.
There's even a song, Superluminal Lover written by one of the astronomers in honor of the discovery.
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
Several pages (and years) back I wondered about the number of galaxies in the universe... found this estimate over on Wikipedia's galaxy entry:
quote:There are probably more than 100 billion [10 to the 11th power] galaxies in the observable universe.
The Wikipedia entry's full of fascinating stuff:
quote:Despite the prominence of large elliptical and spiral galaxies, most galaxies in the universe appear to be dwarf galaxies. These tiny galaxies are about one hundredth the size of the Milky Way, containing only a few billion stars. Ultra-compact dwarf galaxies have recently been discovered that are only 100 parsecs across.
Many dwarf galaxies may orbit a single larger galaxy; the Milky Way has at least a dozen such satellites, with an estimated 300–500 yet to be discovered.
and
quote:The current era of star formation is expected to continue for up to one hundred billion years, and then the "stellar age" will wind down after about ten trillion to one hundred trillion years (1013–1014 years), as the smallest, longest-lived stars in our astrosphere, tiny red dwarfs, begin to fade. At the end of the stellar age, galaxies will be composed of compact objects: brown dwarfs, white dwarfs that are cooling or cold ("black dwarfs"), neutron stars, and black holes. Eventually, as a result of gravitational relaxation, all stars will either fall into central supermassive black holes or be flung into intergalactic space as a result of collisions.
Neat universe! Yay, existence! Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
The probe is going to spend two years completing the most comprehensive map yet of the lunar surface, and will be identifying locations rich in the various materials that would be useful in the manufacture and running of a lunar base.
[ October 21, 2008, 02:03 PM: Message edited by: Noemon ]
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
Awesome! I love the ISRNT!
Posted by BandoCommando (Member # 7746) on :
Interesting, I think.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
That's awesome!
I didn't see it in the article, but do they specify anywhere what new technology is allowin gus to see it? Or was it just a matter of knowing where to look?
Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
Whats currently the cutting edge both practical and theoretical of space propulsion for say quickly getting from Earth to Pluto in a reasonable time?
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
Project Orion --Pluto in less than one year, round trip. Any less radical design would probably be impossible with current tech. Even making it to Mars is going to be really pushing the envelope.
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
"India marked its presence on Moon on Friday night to be only the fourth nation to scale this historic milestone after a Moon Impact Probe with the national tri-colour painted successfully landed on the lunar surface..."
Neither the probe nor the tricolors would survive a 1.683kilometres-per-second/3764miles-per-hour splat (drop in from the minimum lunar orbital velocity), let alone the more likely (due to fuel savings) 2.38kps/5324mph splatter (minimum drop in based on lunar escape velocity).
Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
quote:CAPE CANAVERAL, Florida (Reuters) - As NASA prepares to double the number of astronauts living aboard the International Space Station, nothing may do more for crew bonding than a machine being launched aboard the space shuttle Endeavour on Friday.
It's a water-recycling device that will process the crew's urine for communal consumption.
"We did blind taste tests of the water," said NASA's Bob Bagdigian, the system's lead engineer. "Nobody had any strong objections. Other than a faint taste of iodine, it is just as refreshing as any other kind of water."
It's cool when you consider that this kind of technology needs some serious testing before trying it out in a life-or-death situation such as a base on the moon or a mission to Mars.
Posted by BandoCommando (Member # 7746) on :
Lyrhawn, the exoplanet images came from Hubble, AFAIK.
Here is today's bit of interesting space news. Potentially huge, game-changing information about Mars. Giant underground glaciers that AREN'T in the polar regions.
Posted by All4Nothing (Member # 11601) on :
All4N, that was beautiful in the twilight sky. I saw it for several nights in a row, with the moon in different locations.
Here's something else I think is really cool. It would have been nice to be back with Tycho in 1572 to put a spectrograph on that nova he observed, wouldn't it? Well, it turns out some astronomers have figured out how to get a spectrum of that nova over 400 years after it faded. They're taking the spectra of reflections from the event in which light had to travel an extra 436 light years to arrive here. See the full article on Sky and Telescope's Sky Tonight website.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
I have mixed feelings about that.
Posted by Architraz Warden (Member # 4285) on :
Interesting story here about the size and rotation speed of the Milky Way (both being greater than previously thought).
However, the following statement probably made every science professor I had in school weep...
quote: More important, it's denser, with 50 percent more mass, which is like weight.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Well, for an article for the masses who don't understand the difference, it's not an awful thing to say. But I imagine the Prof I have right not for Astronomy would have some choice things to say about it.
Noemon -
I missed that story before, but I too have mixed feelings about it. The idea of NASA being an independent civilian agency without ties to the military is appealing, but at the same time, if the Pentagon agency could help them achieve their aims faster and cheaper, that only makes them more effective. And at the same time, while I like to think of science for the sake of science as an honorable and necessary pursuit in and of itself, I'm forced to recognize the necessity of its use for our own defense.
And thus I'm led to hesitantly approve of such a move or at least, approve of the looking into of such a move, but with reservations as to where it could lead.
Posted by Evie3217 (Member # 5426) on :
I have a good science/space related thread that I want to put out there for all my lovely Hatrackers. To be fair, I'm a little biased, because my boyfriend writes for it, but I showed it to Lyrhawn, and he enjoys it as well. It's centered around physics, but many of the posts focus on space and cool discoveries/inventions associated with it.
The blog is called Physics Buzz and it's associated with the American Physical Society as part of education and outreach. It's really interesting. I suggest you all check it out.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
It's pretty cool. Very informative, interesting subject matter, and with an undertone of funny mixed in. I've taken to reading it on a daily basis, and not just because I'm taking a physics class.
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
I got out the telescope and found Comet Lulin tonight. The moon was pretty bright and it was lightly overcast, but you could see the bit of fuzz, directly between two bright stars. No real evidence of either tail though.
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
[ March 04, 2009, 04:35 PM: Message edited by: aspectre ]
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Did you mean to post that in this thread, aspectre?
Posted by Achilles (Member # 7741) on :
quote:Originally posted by Glenn Arnold: I got out the telescope and found Comet Lulin tonight. The moon was pretty bright and it was lightly overcast, but you could see the bit of fuzz, directly between two bright stars. No real evidence of either tail though.
We missed the comet due to this Pacific Coast storm. Another one comes in tonight, so no happy viewing for me. Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
"Did you mean to post that in this thread, aspectre?"
Thanks. Must have had two windows open on Hatrack, then posted a response meant for "Asteroid Impact..." in here.
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
quote:We missed the comet due to this Pacific Coast storm. Another one comes in tonight, so no happy viewing for me.
As it is, the moon is waxing right toward the location of the comet, so in a couple of days it will be next to impossible to see.
Posted by vonk (Member # 9027) on :
The Hand of God Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
Pretty cool! I had never heard the helix nebula called the eye of god before. It looks like an eye in that picture, but I wonder if they retouched it some. Usually it looks a whole lot more like a helix, hence the name. Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
[ June 14, 2009, 01:56 PM: Message edited by: aspectre ]
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
The International Space Station has been getting brighter. It used to be that -2.3 or so was the brightest; it must be the new solar arrays, because now it's up to -3.4 sometimes. (Venus is -4.0, so that's WAY bright!)
There's a lot of good viewing times here in Virginia right now, dunno about elsewhere, here's a good website to see them: heavens-above
After you've typed in your country and town info, go to the page for ISS -- Visible Passes, and it'll give you a list of upcoming sightings.
Posted by Tante Shvester (Member # 8202) on :
So my boyfriend is actually covering this even for the American Physical Society, but I think this is really interesting. NASA is finally releasing the higher quality tapes of the moonwalk. This is pretty fantastic. Here is the press release info, and there is more info about the huge screwup that NASA had in terms of getting those tapes to the public: here. I think that Fox and ABC are also covering this event, so check for it tomorrow. It should be pretty amazing. Look at the difference of the two pictures on the second link. And to think, only a handful of people have actually seen this footage until now!
Posted by Darth_Mauve (Member # 4709) on :
quote:40th anniversary of the Apollo Mission to the Moon
AAaahhhhhhg. That was just Evil Tante--EVIL.
Posted by BandoCommando (Member # 7746) on :
Ruh-roh. Maybe it's really a whole bunch of monoliths and Jupiter is about to be transformed into a star! It's a year too soon, I know, but hey.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Speaking of space related news, there are a lot of articles out there dealing with the future of NASA, and more specifically, acting as a precursor to the hearings that will take place in I think October, at the request of the Obama administration.
The debates is between Mars and the Moon, and in where we go next. Will it be Mars first, or Moon then Mars? We might have an answer to that before the end of the year.
Posted by Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged (Member # 7476) on :
I think it should be Mars. We've already been to the Moon, let's explore strange new worlds.
Posted by Tstorm (Member # 1871) on :
Yes, the International Space Station, with it's increased surface area, is quite visible. I just watched it fly overhead. Actually, I saw it fade starting at about 2/3 of its way across the sky, until it wasn't easily visible with the naked eye. (It passed into Earth's shadow.)
Posted by Corwin (Member # 5705) on :
quote:Citizen scientists have helped astronomers identify more than 900,000 galaxies.
Galaxy Zoo, a tool conceived and launched last July by an international team of physicists, harnesses humans’ natural pattern-recognition skills to determine whether never-before-seen images of galaxies taken by the Sloan Digital Sky Survey are elliptical or spiral.
Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged: I think it should be Mars. We've already been to the Moon, let's explore strange new worlds.
Lets figure out a way to reliably and cheaply get people into orbit to get to space stations first. There isn't anything on the Moon or Mars that couldn't be done cheaper and safer by probes still. Eventually it's a great idea, but I don't see it happening in my lifetime (and as much as I love astronomy), and that's okay with me.
People do realize that NASA took up a ton of the federal budget when the lunar missions were being worked on? Those days ain't never coming back, short of Cold War 2: Hello China!
-Bok
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I was reading up on the budget spent on the space race in America; it was massive, and virtually unlimited. We'd have to dramatically increase the NASA budget by tens of billions of dollars to reach the level of funding they had back then. But really, I don't think that's necessary. Time isn't really the issue it was back then.
I don't see why it can't happen in our life time. The new plan they have to get materials and people into space looks fairly promising. I can see the allure of putting a base on the moon first, to make sure that we can live in that kind of setting before moving on to Mars, but living on the Moon and living on Mars are two totally different things, so I also wonder what the point is. We've been doing it on the ISS for awhile now.
I think given what the budget is now for NASA, and how much of that is taken up by telescopes and probes, we could get to Mars on our current budget, it's just a matter of waiting 15 years. And that's fine with me.
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
Galactic Spiral Arms formed by the effect of Newtonian gravitation on elliptical orbits. The idea was so sufficiently simple..."that I had rejected it before because I thought that if it were right, it would already be known. In fact, it worked straightaway, giving a perfect fit with the data."
Posted by Tatiana (Member # 6776) on :
That was an awesome realization. I'm so excited about that.
I have news to share about water at the Moon's south pole. They found a good bit there, plus a lot of other interesting stuff.
Eta Carinae might actually blow up soon, meaning hopefully even during our lifetimes or at least in the next few thousand years. That would be so awesome to see!
Posted by plaid (Member # 2393) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tatiana: Eta Carinae might actually blow up soon, meaning hopefully even during our lifetimes or at least in the next few thousand years. That would be so awesome to see!
I love it because it is 7000 light years away, and if these guys' estimates are right, it either has or has not already exploded. Or, following the Schrödinger's cat idea, and giving that no other sentient being has seen it explode, it is currently both exploded and unexploded.
Oh, and although not exactly space related news (more along the lines of what you see when you look up at night), here's a neat phenomenon that seems to be most likely an errant Russian missile:
Observation in the quantum mechanics sense has nothing to do with sentience (or even being alive), fun as the idea would be. It might have already exploded, or it might have not. It is not in an entangled state until we see which one has happened.
Posted by The White Whale (Member # 6594) on :
Oh, that's not how I understood it. I thought that while it was unobserved, it was both, but when it is finally observed, it is one or the other.
(I've never really looked into this too closely so I wouldn't be surprised if my understanding is wrong.)
Posted by fugu13 (Member # 2859) on :
What you say just there is true; the gap in understanding is that the observer doesn't have anything to do with intelligence (or life at all). You can 'observe' entangled light waves by constructing a mechanical device and placing it so it intersects their path. Those entangled light waves could similarly be 'observed' by certain natural physical occurrences in their way that never had any encounter with anything alive, much less sentient.
Posted by King of Men (Member # 6684) on :
Much New Age nonsense might have been avoided if physicists in the first half of the twentieth century had used the brains of a lab rat and called it "interaction" rather than "observation".
Posted by The White Whale (Member # 6594) on :
Ok, thanks fugu. I see my mistake now.
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
quote:Much New Age nonsense might have been avoided if physicists in the first half of the twentieth century had used the brains of a lab rat and called it "interaction" rather than "observation".
It really gets my hackles up when people try to explain their totally ridiculous philosophies on interpersonal relationships, or astrology or some such by invoking the gods of quantum physics. Most people treat it like magic: something we don't understand and thus requires no logic, and serves as an explanation of everything. My theory is the same goes for electricity. Any good crack-pot theory on 'anti-gravity' always creates some kind of magnetic field (despite the fact that those are two fundamental, and thus different forces), in Harry Potter we find electricity doesn't work around magic (to bad for our central nervous systems!) etc...
18SepO8 "By measuring how the stars orbit around each other, the researchers were able to calculate each one's mass, though the level of uncertainty is still quite high (the larger weighs 116 plus-or-minus 30 solar masses, while the smaller weighs 89 plus-or-minus 15 solar masses)... ...The heavyweight binary, called A1, is in the star cluster NGC 3603, which lies in the Carina spiral arm of the Milky Way, around 20,000 light-years away from our solar system."
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
The thing I found really interesting about this discover is the background on how the technology and process for observing exoplanets has really advanced just in the last ten years. The article I read said that they never would have been able to do this in the nineties or early aughts.
I'll bet the Kepler folks are pretty jealous. They found this sucker with the Keck I. Bested by a planet-side telescope!
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: The thing I found really interesting about this discover is the background on how the technology and process for observing exoplanets has really advanced just in the last ten years. The article I read said that they never would have been able to do this in the nineties or early aughts.
I'll bet the Kepler folks are pretty jealous. They found this sucker with the Keck I. Bested by a planet-side telescope!
It's not like Kepler hasn't found anything yet.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Sure, but what they found was even cooler!
Posted by Glenn Arnold (Member # 3192) on :
I'm surprised that no one here has commented on this Supernova.
I've been looking for it in my telescope the last two nights, and although I haven't picked out the pinwheel nebula, (surface brightness is way too low, and too much light pollution) I'm sure I'm looking in the right place. So I can say that I probably saw the supernova, even though I couldn't say which star it was.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I actually don't have a problem with this, though, I don't really see the point. My only quibble would be that there needs to be international standards on subjects that have global ramifications. If they're going to do this, everyone needs to approve.
It's one thing if they want to mine and pollute themselves to death (though, that has global ramifications too), it's another to push an asteroid towards earth where it could wipe out a country, or more.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I was actually just coming here to post that.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: If they're going to do this, everyone needs to approve.
Meh.
With the pace of space-related development, I'm not very eager for countries sitting on their butts to vote against ambitious projects out of sour grapes.
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
In response to that bit of pithiness, Mucus, I'll reply that perhaps much of the world isn't too eager to have the country that can't keep lead out of the blood of their children be the one pulling potentially dangerous objects into orbit around the planet we're all on.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
If "everyone need[ed] to approve" Russia's first man into space or America's first man to the moon, I'm sure we'd still be here twiddling our thumbs on Earth.
If the US has concerns and wants to help out by sharing technology or information about spaceflight and/or asteroid mining, all the power to them. But in the meantime, I'm happy that the emerging economies like China, India, etc. have ambitious space programmes and aren't likely to ask for permission.
Edit to add: Plan is also for 2049
[ December 11, 2011, 01:06 PM: Message edited by: Mucus ]
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
Oh, I'm not necessarily of the opinion that everyone should have to approve first either, but rejecting that call as sour grapes seems strange to me. The Chinese reputation for quality control and transparency is, shall we say, spotty, and given the potential dangerousness of bringing an asteroid into Earth orbit, concerns don't seem very strange to me.
But as for if/when this would ever be done, I expect/hope that in the near two generations between now and then the prospect will be much less daunting and fraught with risk anyway.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
There are also potential dangers to sitting on our butts and not having any experience on how to deal with asteroids. There are risks either way.
Posted by Rakeesh (Member # 2001) on :
I'm not sure if you're just word-gamin' with me here, Mucus. Sure, there are risks and consequences to every action and inaction. That's a given. Just like there are risks for any group deciding to do this with an asteroid as a starting point, risks which grow or shrink depending on that group's reliability. It's far from surprising that some would be worried about China's industrial reliability and trustworthiness when it comes to safety and quality control is all I'm saying.
There would be substantial concerns if anyone were to try this sort of thing, of course, as no industry is perfect. And I'm hardly suggesting that China is alone in having a problem with safe, trustworthy industry-we've got our own problems too. Worse than they ought to be!
It's just, y'know, there are risks for anyone and risks for *everyone* and when the anyone affecting everyone has the kind of reputation China does for safety and, concern is more than sour grapes. That's all.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I guess I should have said, everyone gets a say, rather than everyone needs to approve, and I stand firm on that. There are several UN treaties regarding space behavior, from the neutrality of the moon, to guards against weaponizing space, etc. If we're going to start throwing asteroids around, there needs to be internationally agreed upon safeguards. Whether that means the United Nations does it, or all the big space faring nations get together to come to an agreement, I don't know.
China sending a man to the moon, and India pressing forward with space based solar panels that beam energy back to the earth are commendable and I wish them the best. Moving asteroids into our orbit is a whole different ball of wax.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Space X will launch Dragon to the ISS in the first ever private launch to the space station.
Beginning of a new era. Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Also, I can't find a link off the top of my head, but there were a bunch of stories recently about how private companies are putting up BILLIONS of dollars to work on private asteroid mining.
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
Having sampled other articles, reporters are apparently hired for lack of curiosity, low attention span, and utter disinterest in anything that might resemble learning.
[ May 18, 2012, 11:52 PM: Message edited by: aspectre ]
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
Huh, they're planning on moving an asteroid even closer than the Chinese proposal. Cool.
Posted by Jake (Member # 206) on :
The Falcon 9 launch was scuttled. They'll be trying again next week.
Posted by Jake (Member # 206) on :
Woo! The ship is in the air!
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
Curiosity is touching down later today.
Posted by Teshi (Member # 5024) on :
Curiosity has its own Twitter feed, thus humanized enough to make me sad. If it crashes, I am going be heartbroken.
On the other hand, if this landing procedure works, do you think the Vulcans will be impressed enough to make first contact?
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
If it crashes I'll be inconsolable.
I've been pining for this for months.
Posted by Szymon (Member # 7103) on :
So have I. Years of hard work can be undone within seconds.
Posted by Sala (Member # 8980) on :
Apparently all went well with Curiosity! Yeah!
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
It landed on a martian cat.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
It was really quite exhilarating to watch the live JPL feed and simulator this morning during the final 45 min or so.
Honestly, I didn't see how the mouse trap of Martian landings could possibly have everything go right, but they pulled it off. It was quite a show.
Posted by Raymond Arnold (Member # 11712) on :
What's the best way to watch footage from the landing now?
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
With popcorn.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by Raymond Arnold: What's the best way to watch footage from the landing now?
This is some of the feed leading up to the landing. You can decide which parts you want to watch depending on how much of the pre-landing chatter you want to hear.
quote:After completing a difficult landing on the Martian surface last week, NASA’s car-sized rover Curiosity has begun deploying its highly advanced cameras and instruments, which will provide the most thorough data on the Red Planet yet. Here are several of its early discoveries:
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
I started reading the list before noticing what site I was on.
Posted by sndrake (Member # 4941) on :
Posted by Tinros (Member # 8328) on :
It does make me wonder... if life from another planet that WASN'T Mars landed ON Mars before they came to Earth, and they found our assorted rovers just... sitting there, what kind of impression would that leave?
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
That we were in the very, very early stages of exploring our solar system?
Posted by Darth_Mauve (Member # 4709) on :
Twitter feed--Sarcastic Rover. That is all.
Posted by Szymon (Member # 7103) on :
[b]Tinros<b>: It does make me wonder... if life from another planet that WASN'T Mars landed ON Mars before they came to Earth, and they found our assorted rovers just... sitting there, what kind of impression would that leave?
That Earthlings are a buncha litterbugs; and a scan of Earth orbit would lead them to conclude that Earthlings are a buncha incurable litterbugs.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Just watched the SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket launch into orbit. Cool! Posted by Jake (Member # 206) on :
I'm glad they took the time to make sure the launch was successful.
It's nice to see this thread again; I always did like this one.
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
... And the NASA budget cuts mean that half of planetary scientists may have to leave the field permanently in the next two years. It's not getting a lot of press.
who are the figures most responsible for nasa's budgetary situation, anyway?
whoever they are, i feel they need extra villainization.
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
Congress and the sequester, mostly. I don't know if it's possible to villianize them any more.
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
That's quitter talk.
YOU KILLED THE SPACE DREAMS OF ENTIRE GENERATIONS, YOU BASTARDS.
Posted by Jeff C. (Member # 12496) on :
Guys (and gals), I strongly advise you guys to write your congress rep about NASA's potential shutdown.
Go to this link and click on Write to Congress. It's very easy and it automatically fills in a default letter for you. All you have to do is fill in your info and hit Send. It only takes like 60 seconds.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Murray-Ryan just announced a budget deal in the last couple days that takes away a lot of the pain from the sequester. Any idea how that affects NASA funding? And how much of this is a problem with NASA funding vs. structure?
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
I'm not really sure. There's certainly no happy chatter under the #PSDRandA hashtag on Twitter, which is what the planetary scientists have been using to complain about this.
It's not the missions that are getting cut, but the scientists who actually learn things from the missions years after the data gets sent down.
Posted by Jake (Member # 206) on :
Which is good news, America only ever seems to throw money at the problem if it damages national pride.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
We now need China to confirm that evidence of an American lunar landing can be found on the moon.
Pretty please?
Posted by Elison R. Salazar (Member # 8565) on :
I think it'ld be funnier if they played coy instead, just to further aggravate things.
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
Someone once pointed out that the fact that Vladamir Putin and every other Russian citizen doesn't cry foul about the moon landing every time the US is even mentioned is pretty much proof that it happened. Because seriously: if we faked it 1. the USSR/Russia would know and 2. they would not let us get away with it.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Considering NASA's planetary sciences division is about to be hacked to pieces by budget cuts, I think we're heading in the other direction from China.
Looks like we're unilaterally ending our golden age of space exploration. Time for China, India, Japan and the EU to take over and explore space beyond LEO.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 9735) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: We now need China to confirm that evidence of an American lunar landing can be found on the moon.
I think you can actually ball-park this.
http://www.google.ca/moon/ has the locations of the various moon landings. Location of the landing is Mare Imbrium apparently. Can't get directions on Google Moon, but eye-balling the scale gives maybe 900km? It can do 200m/hr, so 188 days driving in a straight line?
Then Wikipedia says that the maximum travelling distance is 10km? So, nope.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
I'm a little disappointed that they didn't just drop their robot right on top of the flag at Tranquility.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
quote:We now need China to confirm that evidence of an American lunar landing can be found on the moon.
Pretty please?
It wouldn't make any difference. There's already conclusive proof of the moon landing. So why would the nutters care about additional proof? They believe what they want to believe.
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
Rosetta woke up after 31 months of being shut down and out of range for the solar panels!
Lots of seriously relieved people right now.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
Neat!
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I read earlier today that NASA is hoping to test the VASIMR system as early as March this year.
If VASIMR operates as promised, it could dramatically change space travel as we know it. The operating costs for the ISS would be more than halved. A round trip to Mars would be a couple months instead of two years.
Posted by Godric 2.0 (Member # 11443) on :
Not news, but it's interesting and space related: If the Moon Were Only 1 Pixel.
Posted by Szymon (Member # 7103) on :
Cool. But is scrolls weird on chrome
Posted by Szymon (Member # 7103) on :
We discussed that one at work briefly. Curiosity has stereo cameras. Bright light only shows up one. Defect.
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
Looks like the KickSat burned up. From what I hear, it seems likely that the fault was due to cosmic radiation that exceeded the shielding they could afford.
They intend to kickstart another one. Hopefully that has more success. Either way, kudos to them for trying.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
Russia has announced they are ending participation in the ISS 4 years early, and at that time will no longer ferry US astronauts to the ISS.
The race is on to see if NASA, Space X or others can get a Soyuz replacement into space by 2020.
Since Russia's ban on US astronauts also extends to selling Russian made engines to US companies, Space X, with their Falcon 9 engines, stands to come out as a huge winner.
Kind of a dumb decision by Russia. The US loses nothing and is forced to invest in its own domestic private space industry, likely pushing them ahead years faster than they otherwise would have
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
I wouldn't say that the US loses nothing. The Atlas rocket had some Russians parts in it, and the US needed a few more to launch several planned solar system missions.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: Since Russia's ban on US astronauts also extends to selling Russian made engines to US companies, Space X, with their Falcon 9 engines, stands to come out as a huge winner.
Kind of a dumb decision by Russia. The US loses nothing and is forced to invest in its own domestic private space industry, likely pushing them ahead years faster than they otherwise would have
THIS IS WHY THIS IS THE BEST NEWS EVER
THANK U UKRAINE YOU JUST PUT A FIRE TO THE BUTTS OF OUR SPACE INDUSTRY YESSSS
Posted by Jake (Member # 206) on :
Lyrhawn made a legitimate point*, Sam. Why are you mocking him for it?
*as did theamazeeaz
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
there is 0% mocking going on there. i am glad this happened.
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
quote:Originally posted by theamazeeaz: I wouldn't say that the US loses nothing. The Atlas rocket had some Russians parts in it, and the US needed a few more to launch several planned solar system missions.
ULA has engines stockpiled for two years of launches. Even if they cut them off tomorrow they'd be able to carry on for some time.
ULA has been meaning to switch over to its Delta rockets exclusively for awhile, which are entirely US-made, so this lights a fire under them as well.
Posted by Jake (Member # 206) on :
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: there is 0% mocking going on there. i am glad this happened.
Ah, okay, cool. I misread you.
Posted by ricree101 (Member # 7749) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: The race is on to see if NASA, Space X or others can get a Soyuz replacement into space by 2020.
My understanding was that SpaceX was pretty much ready, pending further testing and certification.
Is that not correct?
Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
I stand corrected on that. They've moved faster than I previously thought.
I didn't think the manned dragon capsule was intended to fly before 2018, but it looks like mid 2016 for operational NASA flights is realistic.
The manned capsule hasn't flown at all yet. It'll be a full year before they even have their first test, let alone become operational. But they're still a good two years ahead of where I thought they were.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jake:
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: there is 0% mocking going on there. i am glad this happened.
Ah, okay, cool. I misread you.
Like this is literally the most exciting space-related news ever because it's an incentive we can respond to productively.
I mean, look at us. Look at how critically we were defunding NASA and crippling it, punting forward on russian rockets, while spending literally trillions of dollars on a disastrous F-35 program and forcing the army to have tanks it doesn't even want.
Posted by Jake (Member # 206) on :
I'd like to see a more extensive article on what the practical applications of this would be.
How high would it scale up? What so we imagine we'd use it for?
Posted by Wingracer (Member # 12293) on :
Well, if you believe Woodward (who is a bit controversial) it can be scaled up enough for 1g accelerations of large spacecraft. You could get to Jupiter in 5-6 days and Proxima Centauri in just over 29 years. All without having to carry any reaction mass (propellent or fuel). You would need a LOT of electrical power but a few nuclear reactors should do the job. You would end up with a spacecraft quite similar to a nuclear sub.
That's probably still a LONG way off if this thing is even real but the fact that we now have two independent positive results (Chinese researchers and now NASA) gives us some hope.
Posted by Szymon (Member # 7103) on :
If this works, like really works, it's astonishing, no doubt about it
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
It should be noted that the NASA results were much weaker than the Chinese ones, but still...
If it's legit, travel in space just got a bit more practical.
Posted by Wingracer (Member # 12293) on :
Uh oh, just read that the NASA test not only measured thrust in normal testing but the "null test" where the device was reconfigured in a way that it should not produce thrust, also showed thrust. Not a good sign.
Posted by Samprimary (Member # 8561) on :
y'all were laughing at me when i strapped a kitchen microwave to the back of my car back in '06
ain't nobody laughing now
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
This thread needs a bump! 2015 is going to be a great year, seeing two new major, unseen objects-- Ceres and Pluto (and its 5+ moons)!
Posted by Dogbreath (Member # 11879) on :
quote:Originally posted by theamazeeaz: This thread needs a bump! 2015 is going to be a great year, seeing two new major, unseen objects-- Ceres and Pluto (and its 5+ moons)!
I remember when New Horizons was launched (I was in high school) being rediculously excited about it, but thinking "man, 2015! I'm going to be an old man by the time it gets there."
Anyway, this is the last "planet" (of the 9 I grew up with anyway) to be visited, and I'm tremendously excited to see the pictures come July.
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
Yeah, seeing something we have very little information on what to expect is one of the biggest part of the thrill.
There are some new pics of Ceres out, and it looks like ... Ceres from HST. They've not hit their better than HST point, yet, but it's quite close.
I'm actually more interested in that than Pluto for some reason.
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
What makes you say that?
I'd say I was more excited for the Pluto encounter than the KBO one (not that I'm not excited about the KBO encounter). They're very different. It's just that Pluto's got so much weirdness going on all in one place, plus its five friends.
[ August 29, 2015, 12:24 AM: Message edited by: theamazeeaz ]
Posted by Wingracer (Member # 12293) on :
I don't really know why, I just am. Maybe because I've known about Pluto my whole life. I may not have known all that much about it but I knew something. KBOs on the other hand are a bit more of a mystery. Also there is the possible usefulness in future spaced based endeavors. I suspect smaller things with smaller gravity wells like asteroids and KBOs will be more useful than frozen balls of planetoids.
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
I used to have my favorites Astronomy pic of the day as background of my computers at work long before someone in the Corporate world decided that was a bad idea and forced people to use companies logos ;-)
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