This is topic Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time - Do you like it? in forum Books, Films, Food and Culture at Hatrack River Forum.


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Posted by Eduardo_Sauron (Member # 5827) on :
 
Hi, people. Yesterday I received from Amazon The whole Wheel of Time saga (10 books, but Jordan is still writting it.) + the prequel. It was like a (not so) early christmas from my girlfriend, and the boxed sets are very nice. But I digress.
Some years ago I did already read the 5 first books (the fifth being "The Fires of Heaven"), and I'm looking foward to read the other ones, because Jordan's works are so delightful!
I guess there must be some of you who also like Wheel of Time, so let's start this thread and talk about this fantastic fantasy world!

Let's begin with a question: what do you think about Jordan's portrayal of man/woman differences? Is he being accurate? I guess it's one of his strongest points, and one of the most important topics of the whole saga, since it even affects the way people "weave" magic (saidar/saidin), etc.

Well, what do you think?
 

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Posted by tt&t (Member # 5600) on :
 
I liked the Wheel of Time, the first time I read it - up to book 7 (all we had at the time). Then I found book 8 (years later) in a bookstore and started to read it, but got a bit lost, so thought I'd better re-read the others - and got BORED! I thought this was strange because I always read good books again and again without getting sick of them, and I usually continue to like books that I thought were good the first time. Did anyone else find they were a good read once, but just seemed to drag on and on if you read them again?

Heh. This doesn't really answer your question at all, but ah well.

... Maybe I should give them another go.
 

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Posted by Eduardo_Sauron (Member # 5827) on :
 
Well, tt...I don't know yet, but maybe I'll be able to answer your question in a few weeks (gotta finish my thesis first), since I intend to read the first 5 books again, before proceed to the 6th.
 

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Posted by tonguetied&twisted (Member # 5159) on :
 
::nods::

I think I will read them again. I'm almost out of good books (again!). Let me know how you get on!
 

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Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
 
I think it accurate to say that I likED the Wheel of Time series. But after three books, I began to despair. Upon reading the fifth book, I gave up.
 

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Posted by Chaeron (Member # 744) on :
 
Wow, not this again. I thought this Hatrack cliché had gone the way of the dodo.

For what it's worth, here's my opinion: I hate the damn books. The writing is formulaic and repetitive. The fifth book was dreadful, not only in style, but in content. I got halfway through the sixth, and then promptly gave up. The story was finally going somewhere, but I didn't care. It seems Robert Jordan tried to create a rich universe like Tolkien; he fails, and instead creates countless monstrous tomes profuse with his vile verbal diarrhoea. His descriptions are so lifeless and repetitive, and his use of language so banal that with each exposition on some facet of his world, I cared increasingly less about it. Unfortunately, I was an idiot, and thought that the story would eventually take precedence over his self indulgent screed. It took me only 4000 or so pages to realise that was never going to happen. I would rather be David Foster Wallace's editor than be forced to read those odious tomes again. My advice to those thinking of reading this series: you can't get the time back.

But that's just my opinion; I could be wrong.

<edit, damn typos, if only there was a way to preview posts. >

[ December 18, 2003, 06:29 AM: Message edited by: Chaeron ]
 

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Posted by beatnix19 (Member # 5836) on :
 
I realy liked them. I still think that the story is a good one but... I have become so bored in waiting for things to happen. The first 4-5 books were just great. Good story, good pacing, good fun. then we got to the middle of the pack and things SLOWED WAY DOWN. 800 pages for a little bit of character development. I plugged through them hoping to get somewhere good and hoping the story would pick back up. I think it finally has with the last couple books. They seemed to have picked the pace back up. SOme major events have happened again. SO I find myself waiting and hoping for good things but I must say that my patients with Jordan is small. He has drug this out a bit much. He could have told the same stories in half the pages and My hope is he'll get a move on and get these things finished. I would really like to know what is going to happen with Rand and the Black Tower, and how the world will react to them after the events in the last book.
 

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Posted by Jexxster (Member # 5293) on :
 
I initially enjoyed the first few books. I was mildly entertained by the next few. And I was downright bored numb through the last few.

I have since determined that I will not read another until he finishes the ridiculous series. I do intend to read them simply to know what eventually happens, but have found no joy in the last few (I have not read 10 though, I refuse).
 

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Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
 
Robert Jordan goes by Several Other Names as well.

I've only read the first of the Wheel of Time -- the Eye of the World. Maybe I won't check out the rest of the series if it goes as downhill as the rest of you say.

Makes me think of the "Left Behind" series (Prophecy Fiction). I like the first one, then each of the others got progressively worse.

Farmgirl
 

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Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
Yeah, "Wheel of Time" is a "Left Behind" for pagan teenagers.
 

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Posted by Law Maker (Member # 5909) on :
 
I have read all of them and have "liked" them. I did notice the same phenomenon as some of you others. After reading the later books, the first ones were so boring. I think this is because, as you read through them, they progressively become on a more and more grand scale. That's why I think they've slowed down too. The only one that made me furious was book number 10. The plot in that book seemed not just slow, but to be actually going backwards!

I do like the books, but not really for the story, which I agree is repetitive and drab. I like the books because of the element of prophesy (it's fun to know what's coming and to see how it comes true) and that it echoes legends and myths that we are familiar with. Two of these off the top of my head: Arthurian Legend and Norse Mythology.

As for the relationships between men and women, I don't think they are accurate to real life, but that's okay. This is a different world shaped by a different history. Frankly, the way it is set up as sort of a men vs. women is the one thing I find most annoying about them.
 

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Posted by Tristan (Member # 1670) on :
 
I am slightly biased on this subject because in a way it is from Jordan that I learned english and discovered the internet (yes, Al Gore has nothing on me). When I first found his books only half of The Eye of the World was translated into Swedish. I borrowed it at the library and -- as some of the first fantasy I'd read, bar Eddings -- enjoyed it immensely. Eager to find out what would happen, I had to wait a half to one year between each half book installment while the novels were translated at a snail pace. I think they were half way into book four when I by accident discovered that both my local book shop and my library actually carried the books in english. To that point the books I had read in english consisted of perhaps a readers digest of Robin Hood that had been a required school assignment and, well, that was about it. A month later I had read over four thousand pages with increasing understanding and was thoroughly hooked on the series. When founding out that it wasn't finished, I for perhaps the first time seriously turned to the internet and found out that there was large communities with fans with these really enjoyable theories and predictions on what was about to come next. I read everything I could find and eventually started to contribute, join chat rooms and making friends.

Then The Path of Daggers was released and it was a let-down. Nothing friggin happened. The characters were moved from place A to place B with a lot of bickering in between, the battle in the end was thrown in as an afterthought with no real build-up, and I began to notice a lot of flaws that I hadn't been aware of previously. And it was too short. They even changed the font to make it appear as if the book was longer than it really was. But they couldn't fool me; I counted the characters on a page and made my calculations. Winter's Heart wasn't much better. Sure, a lot of fans claimed that it was a return to earlier qualities, but I think this was mainly a reaction to the huge pay-off at the end. I thought that it lacked build-up, was poorly executed and did not make up for other flaws, now more noticable than ever.

My main complaint with Jordan -- aside from unneccessary verbiage, dragged out plotting, etc. -- is the way he takes perfectly good characters and destroy them. It is especially noticable with the female heroines. Jordan let them develop, grow up, act more and more mature and show true nobility and heroism, and then -- wham! we can't have that -- the character is humiliated, regressing, acting childish and spiteful and completely out of character. Because apparently, in Jordan's mind, no matter what trials a woman has endured, what noble deeds she has performed and responsibilities she's carried, there's always something -- often quite insignificant -- that will reduce her to a blubbering child or, at best, a petulant adolescent.

Another thing that gets me irritated is this constant introduction of new characters, each potentially more powerful or skilled than our original heroes and heroines. Sure, it may be realistic -- why exactly should this young people we've been following for 6000 pages be the most powerful and most important characters of the narrative? wait, because the narrative is about THEM -- but it can be really frustrating at times. Here we have Nynaeve who from almost the beginning has been trumped as THE Healing Girl. That was her thing, what made her special, her claim to greatness, and then in the latest book (I think) we have an anonymous Kins woman calling her healing weaves "clumsy" and it was indicated that several women surpassed her at the skill. Again it may be realistic in a way, but psycologically it is really bad story telling.

And don't start me on the last book, Crossroad of Twilight. Verbiage, nothing happening, no resolution and FIVE cliffhangers. I am close to being discouraged altogether. I'm definetely not going to rush out buying the next book until I've obtained several independent confirmations from people I trust that it won't be a waste of my life.

[ December 18, 2003, 10:38 AM: Message edited by: Tristan ]
 

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Posted by Primal Curve (Member # 3587) on :
 
I couldn't agree more, Chaeron. I just wish I had figured it out ealier. I didn't give up until halfway through book eight. I just threw the damn thing against the wall and cried, "f*** it!"

I really liked the first two books, and my love for a good epic story kept me going until book eight. I just couldn't stand it anymore after that. I have no interest in picking them up again.
 

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Posted by jRc (Member # 1335) on :
 
I was always distracted by how much the serpent and the wheel symbol looks like Mickey Mouse.
 

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Posted by Tresopax (Member # 1063) on :
 
I thought the first book had a slightly interesting beginning and an effective conclusion, but that everything in between was fairly boring and pointless. It was as if the whole point was to take the reader around and show us how cool his not-so-original world was.

I stopped the series at that point.
 

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Posted by BYuCnslr (Member # 1857) on :
 
I rather liked the series, though I'm one of a few. As Jordan writes, you have to remember that he writes by the pound, he gets paid by the letter. The first five were really good, afterwords, they do get slower, but what I do like about WoT vs say even Tolkien, is that there isn't one giant one dimentional Sauron. The enemy is much more dynamic, and they bicker between each other like no other.I donno...I'm one that will keep reading until the series is done, just to see how it happens.
Satyagraha
 

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Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
 
The Great Hunt is still my favorite. The battle scene in the skies is exquisitely executed. I have a copy of Crossroads, and as I have today off, I'm either going to start it or Midnight's Children.
 

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Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
 
My problem with Jordan is he loves his characters too much, and won't let them die. He creates new interesting characters each book, but then can't end their stories of kill the off.

As a result, each one needs two or three chapters in the next book, where he introduces three new characters which will need three chapters of their own in the next book...

The result is a world full of interesting characters, but not enough room in a book to tell any of their stories. We are down to a chapter per character where he says, "Hi remember me? This is what I'm doing now. Not much happened. Bye till the next book."

The first book started out as the story of Rand. Then his two buddies were hero's. Then the girls and the two who came after him. Then just about every minor person they met from ships captain to farm girl b.

Jordan, please, kill off some of these people, and do it NOW!
 

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Posted by Maccabeus (Member # 3051) on :
 
Inexplicably, I'm still enjoying the story. I've told some people here that I just plain have no taste, and maybe it's true. I'm in the middle of rereading (finally reached Winter's Heart in the last couple of days), and mean to pick up Crossroads of Twilight the moment it comes out in paperback.

Are the later books as good as the earlier? Well, no. They drag a little, and the characters bicker more. But not so much that, for me, it detracts from the quality a great deal. And I'm weird when it comes to exposition. I can buy books just for the sake of a lot of exposition; I want to know in detail what a world is like. (Still waiting to see Kandor, or Arad Doman.)

Recently I remember someone griping that RJ had been rude at a signing. I agreed that the incident was indeed very rude and I would have been angry had it been me...but I would never swear off an author's books just because I didn't like the author. I'd have to quit reading all kinds of authors if I did that!
 

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Posted by Wendybird (Member # 84) on :
 
Crossroads of Twilight is out in paperback now. I picked it up at Sam's club for $4 something. Its been so long since I've read them its hard to get into it. I loved the first few. The characters were vibrant and I really liked them. Now there are so many other characters the original 6 or so are missing. I'll finish reading this one because I've started it but meanwhile I've read 2 other books so far. CoT is for when there are no other books available at the library that I want to read

and since I know my dh got me The Crystal City for Christmas it will be awhile before I finish Crossroads of Twilight....
 

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Posted by FoolishTook (Member # 5358) on :
 
I enjoyed the first book of the Wheel of Time. I enjoyed the second book and the third. I think I even liked the fourth. But as the story got more and more crowded with characters, and the...eh...six? seven? main characters started showing up less and less, I lost my patience.

I'm not an undisciplined reader, but I couldn't put myself through this anymore. Robert Jordan is not the only fantasy author out there. There are other books that have been written, better books, and I want to read them, not devote the next year or two of my life plodding through a halfway decent, massive, confusing, crowded story-line.
 

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Posted by Maccabeus (Member # 3051) on :
 
Part of my problem is doubtless the speed at which I read. With minimal effort I can probably finish CoT in a matter of days--perhaps a week. I remember 90% of the plotline, whereas most people seem to need help remembering half. Even if it's horrible, I won't be spending the kind of time on it some of you suggest it will take you.

But it's not the real problem. A few years back my mother bought me the first book of the Corellian trilogy for Star Wars. Out of all the Star Wars books I read, it was the worst...but I still bought the other two to know how the story ended. I still have the bad taste in my mouth, but I couldn't help myself.

I think I am stuck with the Wheel of Time series for the long haul.
 

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Posted by Daedalus (Member # 1698) on :
 
Holy crap, now he's publishing prequels.
 

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Posted by Maccabeus (Member # 3051) on :
 
I have a theory about the prequels. RJ really believes that the current parts of the story are necessary to the plot (whether they are or not) but he knows he's losing some of us. So he's trying to get the people he's lost back by writing prequel stories that are more like the earlier books. Of course, I could always be wrong.
 

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Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
 
I liked the first through 8th books even though by about book 6 I started wishing for Rand to fall in a whole somewhere and not come out again. After those books though, I had to wait half a year for the next book and by the time it came out, I couldn't remember who half the characters were. Also, there's only so much humilation you want a character you live to go through, and he repeatedly goes far beyond that point.

Paths of Daggers was actually my second favorite, right after the Eye of the World. There are some scenes in the first book that I can read over and over again, can't get enough of them.
 

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Posted by solo (Member # 3148) on :
 
I liked the first 7 books a lot. The 8th was so boring that I was glad I had to wait 2 years for the 9th. I really liked book 9 and it wasn't just because of the ending. I got Crossroads of Twilight from the library and in the 3 weeks I had it I was able to read anbout 200 pages. I think I will have to read some plot summaries at least, if not a total reread before I try to read it again. I really hope that Jordan's latest prediction of 13 books (plus 3 prequels) is it. I want some storylines concluded.

On a side note, has the character Slayer (the one who looks like Lan - I think Perrin saw him in a wolf dream in one of the earlier books) ever been mentioned again? This is one thing that bugs me about Jordan. He introduces a character, who seems to be potentially important, and then never mentions them again.
 

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Posted by Javert Hugo (Member # 3980) on :
 
Not really.
 

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Posted by Tristan (Member # 1670) on :
 

quote:

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On a side note, has the character Slayer (the one who looks like Lan - I think Perrin saw him in a wolf dream in one of the earlier books) ever been mentioned again?

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