This is topic Guess the Author Game II -- Round Two in forum Books, Films, Food and Culture at Hatrack River Forum.


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Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
 
It’s still not too late to send in a writing excerpt!

Here are links to the first season

and this season, Round one.

quote:
People here drive like lunatics. Maybe it’s just a southern thing or years of outrageous road rules that no sane person would invent. Your average Joe gets behind the wheel of a car and the switch is thrown to “vaudeville”. In a state of otherwise polite and friendly people, drivers are out for blood. Personally, I think it all comes down to the Hook Turn. Who would think of that? Turn Left from the right hand lane??!?! Or having to give way to turning traffic at T-intersections? It’s just this kind of wackiness that has given rise to the general mayhem on the roads here; with laws this bizarre anything must be allowed, right?

I remember the first day I arrived in town and nearly ran down pedestrians as they alighted from the trams that I suspect are the root cause of much of the mayhem. Ever tried driving on tram-tracks in wet weather? A nearly frictionless surface that’s not only wet, but almost exactly the same width as your wheel-base. Drivers are forced to drive either half in the lane next to them – or half in oncoming traffic. Which would explain why I’ve been in numerous traffic-jams where not one car lined up with any other – this seething mass of metal and bad tempers.

Two points for a guess with critique
One point for a guess with rationale
Five points for a correct guess with either
Negative ten for any guess with neither
 
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
 
The guess from list:

advice for robots . . . . . . Gottmorder. . . . . .. . Papa Moose
ae . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Human. . . . . . . . .. . Pat
amira tharani .. . . . . . . . . Icarus . . . . . . . . . . . .Pericles
Amka . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . imogen . . . . . . . . . . . . Pixie
Annie . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . IndexCard . . . . . . . . porcelain girl
asQmh . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . Irami . . . . . . . . . . . . .. pooka
Avadaru . . . . . . . . . . . . . Jaiden . . . . . . . . . .. . rivka
BannaOJ . . . . . . . . . . . . JaneX . . . . . . . . . . . Ryuko
beatnix19 . . . . . . . . .. . . Jeni . . . . . . . . . . .. . sarcastic muppet
BelladonnaOrchid . . . . . jeniwren . . . . . . . .. saxon75
Bob_Scopatz . . . . . .. . Jenny Gardener. .. .. . ScottR
Brinestone .. . . .. . . .. . . Jon Boy.. . . . . . . . . . . . scythrop.
Caleb Varns . . . . . . . . . Julie. . . .. ... . . . . . . . . Shlomo
CalvinMaker . . . . . . . . . Kama . . . . . . . . . . . . Slash the Bezerker
Celia60. . . . . . . . . . . .. . KarlEd . . . . . . . . . . . . solo
Christy . . . . . . . . . . . . . . katharina . . . . . . . . . . sndrake
Da_Goat. . . . . . . . . . . . . Kayla. .. . . . . . . . . . . Strider
Dan_raven . . . . . . . . . . . kwsni. . . . . . . . . . . . . T_Smith
Dante. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Leonide . . . . . . . . . . Tammy
dkw . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . ... Leto II. . . .. . . . . . . . . Teshi
Dragon. . . . . . . . . .. . . .. . . littlemissattitude. .. . . The Tick
^eleKtron . . . . . . . . . . .. . . :Locke . . . . . . . . . . Tresopax
enjeeo. . . . . . . . . .. . . . . .. . ludosti.... . . . . . . . . . . Tristan
eslaine . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Maethoriell. . . . . . . . . Troubadour.
Ethics Gradient. . . . .. .. .. . . mackillian . . . . . . . . TomDavidson
Feyd Baron. . . . . . .. . . ... . . Mama Squirrel . . . . . . . . . . . twinky
Flyby. .. . . . . . . . . . . . . ... . . Morbo . . . . . . . . . . . . . Unmaker
Filleted.. . . . . . . . . . . . . ... Nick. . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . Vána
Fugu13. . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . Noemon.. ……………….. zgator
Geoffrey Card. . . . . . . . . Ophelia
.. . . . . . . .. . . .

[ November 19, 2003, 12:39 PM: Message edited by: dkw ]
 
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
 
The score:

Rivka: 14
Jeni: 7
eslaine: 6
imogen: 5
Julie: 5
ScottR: 4
Scythrop: 3
Tom Davidson: 3
Megachirops: 3
BannaOJ: 3
Tresopax: 3
Dragon: 3
Saxon75: 3
Brinestone : 2
esl: 2
Ophelia: 2
Leonide: 2
sarcasticmuppet: 2
Jaiden: 2
Beatnix19: 2
Dan Raven: 2
Ryuko: 2
advice for robots: 2
Jon Boy: 2
Teshi: 2
Sopwith: 2
Pericles: 1
 
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
Are we really scoring for EACH guess? Frankly, I'd argue that this artificially inflates the score of people who're just willing to guess straight down the list, which is the lowest form of guessing.
 
Posted by Tristan (Member # 1670) on :
 
Negative points, Tom. Negative.
 
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
 
That's what the rationale or critique requirement is supposed to prevent.

edit: I suppose I could go to zero points or partial points for multiple guesses based on the same rationale.

[ November 19, 2003, 12:42 PM: Message edited by: dkw ]
 
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 
This piece has a clearly Scopatzian feel to me. The pacing and the language both feel like him (although there is a certain lack of puns that leaves me a little uncertain.)

I'm guessing Bob.
 
Posted by T_Smith (Member # 3734) on :
 
IMO:

1. Gender can go both ways on this one, though I'd lean to male.

2.
quote:

Maybe it’s just a southern thing

Bit of a give away that this has been or is a southern jatraquero. Since it would be a bit too obvious, I would guess someone that once lived there, or visited, but not any more.

Um... random guess... Morbo.
 
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
Hmph. I was going to guess Bob. If it's NOT Bob, it's someone who really admires Bob. [Smile] So since you've already guessed Bob, I'll say Chris Bridges. *grin*

That said, while I like the piece, it's a bit histrionic to START a story; I think it'd play better after we've got some reason not to thump the narrator over the head.

[ November 19, 2003, 12:47 PM: Message edited by: TomDavidson ]
 
Posted by Koryu (Member # 5922) on :
 
It sounds like a male somewhere between 20s and middle aged to me. And complaining about people's driving... I don't think it seems like Bob to me, because it just doesn't smack of "professional traffic accident analyser"

I'm gonna guess Jon Boy.

[ November 19, 2003, 12:49 PM: Message edited by: Koryu ]
 
Posted by Christy (Member # 4397) on :
 
This reads like it would be great as a comedy/stand-up sketch, but I'm not so sure I like it as a story.

Someone with a well-developed sense of humor. [Smile]

Maybe Jon Boy?

Darn, I was beaten to it! I still stand by my guess, though.

[ November 19, 2003, 12:50 PM: Message edited by: Christy ]
 
Posted by Megachirops (Member # 4325) on :
 
quote:
Are we really scoring for EACH guess?
Apparently not, because I submitted two guesses, each with rationale, and a lengthy critique.

Of course, then I have no idea how rivka has 14 points.

I know, I know, the points don't matter.

This is just me being me.

[Grumble]
 
Posted by Megachirops (Member # 4325) on :
 
I don't have time for an in-depth right now . . . students are coming.

But I think this person has his regions confused. I've lived in various parts of the South all of my life, and the first time I ever saw jug-handle left turns was on a visit to New Jersey. Or am I misunderstanding this person?
 
Posted by Tristan (Member # 1670) on :
 
And to start playing...

To me this reads more like one of Chris Bridges' columns than like an excerpt from a novel. Unless it's one of those semi-new, semi-hip New Yorkian novels where the narrator works at an advertising agency and you believe the author does too. The personal touch with random amounts of question and exclamation marks together with the liberal use of italics suggests a sort diary tone to this piece which is fine if that's what the author intended, but which doesn't do much for me.

That as criticism. As for a rationale: the use of semi-colons and thought lines is typical of Tom Davidson. However, the sentences are not quite long enough and I don't think Tom could resist a slightly more advanced vocabulary.

I've already said that the piece reminds me of Chris' columns, so...

Chris Bridges.

Edit: OK, Tom stole my guess, so I'll put in another:

Tom.

[ November 19, 2003, 12:56 PM: Message edited by: Tristan ]
 
Posted by Sopwith (Member # 4640) on :
 
Something about the word choices and the structure of the sentences makes this seem like the literary equivalent of trying to get out of the stadium parking lot after a home team win. Hurry, stop, go, dodge. Most times, this would be a train wreck, but, whether intentional or not, it works in this piece considering its subject matter.

My first thoughts of who it could be rested around the use of the word "trams", something that makes me think the person is originally British. That didn't fit well and then the only place I can remember someone talking about trams was at Disney World, so therefore, I'm thinking its a person from Florida... so my guess is Icarus .
 
Posted by Christy (Member # 4397) on :
 
Um, perhaps I'm missing it, but Chris Bridges isn't on the list! And he's been guessed twice now.

I know we had some confusion to start, but I thought the list was now up to date.
 
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
 
Heh...that's funny Tom--Chris was actually my first guess, but I noticed that he wasn't on the list of people to choose from, so I went with Bob instead.
 
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
 
First, everybody's wrong.

Second, Icarus, you were scored for two guesses, one with critique and one with rationale. I agree that it doesn't seem fair that long and involved critiques don't score higher than one or two sentences of critique with each guess. So help me fix it.

I only introduced the points to encourage guessing when it looked like the game was dying way back in July, and it's not a well thought out system. Suggestions are welcome.

Third, the list was always up-to-date. It's just that I add anyone who sends me something, guesses, or is guessed. And sometimes when I'm adding those I might add an extra name or two, just to be confusing. So count Chris as on the list now, 'cause he will be soon.

[ November 19, 2003, 01:01 PM: Message edited by: dkw ]
 
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 
I think Ic should get at least 5 or 6 points for that long analysis -- it was the equivalent of 3 or so regular critiques.

A game where I get rewarded for talking too much . . . [Blushing]

As for the piece, I like it. But it is rather a rant. So I agree with Tom that it might not be the best beginning for a piece.

I think we have someone here who is trying to drag as many red herrings under our noses as possible. Therefore, I guess saxon75.
 
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
Here's my suggested fix:

You can only be scored once, for your highest-scoring post. Correct answers are worth five points, guesses with critique are worth three points, and guesses with rationale are worth one point. Simple guesses score nothing (unless, of course, they're right.)

This encourages critique, ensures that the person who gets it right wins the round (with potentially eight points, even), and means that people who just KEEP guessing, over and over, don't run away with the round by just cutting and pasting names out of an appropriate spreadsheet.
 
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
 
Although the tone sounds quite Scopatzian ( [Smile] ) I think it's someone younger. It's someone not afraid to use conversational punctuation like ?!??! rather than being strictly literary, which is why there's no way it could have been Jon Boy.

But it is wry, and dry, and could work well in a conversationally toned piece.

I guess Caleb Varns.
 
Posted by Jeni (Member # 1454) on :
 
This is a fun, informal piece, but I really can't see it in a story. I'd definitely get rid of the "??!?!?" I think the last sentence would work a bit better if it were worded differently, without the dash, as well. Uhm... Troubadour.
 
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
The use of "Trams" is interesting and I'm uncertain as to where in the South "trams" are used. (maybe some southerners can enlighten me?) The South of England? Perhaps. There are other semi- colloquialisms like the "hook turn" that might be used more there.

It is a bit more rambly than her normal style but there is power behind the writing, road rage and an interesting use of italics.

I'm going with a hunch to guess Mackillian

AJ

(P.S. I realize my score was inflated by multiple guesses in the last round. I think that if it was the "same" rationale for each guess like there was with two of them, only one counts. However if someone comes up with a new and creative rational for a different guess than points should be awarded.)

[ November 19, 2003, 01:24 PM: Message edited by: BannaOj ]
 
Posted by beatnix19 (Member # 5836) on :
 
It has a definate male voice in my opinion. A couple people have already said it sounds like something Chris would put in his column, which I have really enjoyed reading,and I agree but since he has been guessed already I'll make a different guess. I still don't know the individaul voices and writing styles of the people here so I am making a random guess - Dan Raven.

Even though this is a bit of a rant piece, which can be anoying if not handled well, I enjoyed it. I liked the intro, "people here drive like lunatics" It was interesting enough for me to continue on and I even found myself nodding in agreement to some of the ridiculous road laws that can be found. Insightful to the silliness of many traffic laws and humurous.

[ November 19, 2003, 01:33 PM: Message edited by: beatnix19 ]
 
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
 
And Jeni wins again!

I like Tom's suggsted rules changes, but I think I'm going to modify them a bit. I'll figure it out by tonight. Next round will be up tomorrow morning.
 
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
 
"the South?" darn tricksy foreigners...
 
Posted by Jeni (Member # 1454) on :
 
And all it took was a quick good Google search.
 
Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :
 
Darn it, I didn't even get a chance to guess. Oh well, I wouldn't have gotten it right anyway, since I was thinking "southern" indicated "Southern California."
 
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
How did Google help you in this case, Jeni?
 
Posted by beatnix19 (Member # 5836) on :
 
quote:
How did Google help you in this case, Jeni?
I'm wondering this as well. Southern cities with Trams? or was it something else?
 
Posted by Zalmoxis (Member # 2327) on :
 
My guess is that it was the "trams" bit.
 
Posted by Julie (Member # 5580) on :
 
That's not fair! I didn't even get to read it before it was guessed! [Grumble] Oh well! There's always next round.
 
Posted by Jeni (Member # 1454) on :
 
I searched for hook turns and the trams thing and found they're both common in Australia. I didn't think EG would write something like this, and enjeeo hasn't posted since July, so Troubs it was.

[ November 19, 2003, 02:23 PM: Message edited by: Jeni ]
 
Posted by Julie (Member # 5580) on :
 
For the record, I was confused by
quote:
Maybe it’s just a southern thing or years of outrageous road rules that no sane person would invent.
I wasn't sure if the narrator was southern or the bad driving. [Dont Know] I also immediately thought of New Jersey for bad driving and jughandles.
 
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
 
Geealll. Over before I even saw it. [Mad]

Yes, reform the point system. A correct guess in the same post as a critique gets 5 points. A correct guess without a critique, or on a second or third or fourth guess, gets three points.

A critique with a wrong guess gets 2 points. You can get scored for your first two critiques. A wrong guess with a rationale gets 1 point for the first rationale, then no points thereafter (unless you have the correct guess, which yields 3 points).

A critique should cover the whole passage somehow, whether line by line or overall. Critiques of one line or idea in the passage should be scored as rationales (although differentiated because you can score for your first two critiques).

Hmph. This is why I didn't study math. I'm sure you'll devise a fine system by yourself, dkw.
 
Posted by Jeni (Member # 1454) on :
 
Is how I came up with my guess okay, or should we be guessing purely on the writing style?
 
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
I like ALR's system considerably better than mine. [Smile]
 
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
 
Suggested new scoring system:

One point for each guess accompanied by a rationale that relates to the excerpt.
“I think the author is Australian, therefore I guess Troubador” does not count.
“I think the author is Australian, because I’ve never heard anyone from the US use the terms “tram” and “hook turn”, and therefore I guess Troubador” counts.

Subsequent guesses based on the same rationale do not score, but are eligible to win. Please state when a guess is based on something you posted earlier, so I’ll know not to growl at you.

From zero to three points will be awarded to each player at the end of the round, based on the total critique provided during the round, whether in one or multiple posts. I won’t base it on whether I think the critique is “right,” only on the amount. (Not word count, you get no bonus for being verbose.) I realize this is subjective, but anyone who disagrees with his or her score is welcome to appeal it.

Five points for guessing the correct author, with a reason given for the guess, based on critique of the writing or any other rationale.

Random guessing, with neither critique nor rationale, gets you tarred and feathered.

[ November 19, 2003, 03:12 PM: Message edited by: dkw ]
 
Posted by Julie (Member # 5580) on :
 
Would it be possible for people to get points for critiques even after the author is figured out? That way people who didn't get a chance to guess can still get points and the author can still get a feel for what people think about their writing. Just a suggestion.
 
Posted by advice for robots (Member # 2544) on :
 
What's funny is that I was seriously trying to come up with a good scoring system. What I came up with needs a few extra dimensions just to diagram. [Angst]
 
Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :
 
So, let me see if I get this new scoring system.

Joe Bloggs reads the excerpt and thinks about it for a while. He posts an exceptional critique, quite impressing everyone who reads it, and includes a random guess: Alice. (3 points)

Reading the excerpt a second time, he notices that the author seems to have focused on some stereotypically male themes. His previous guess having been incorrect, he states his revelation and guesses Bob. (1 point)

However, Bob didn't write it, so, continuing with his previous rationale, Joe guesses Carl. (0 points).

Much to his frustration, Carl didn't write it either, so he re-reads it yet again. He's surprised he missed it, but he notices that the prose is a little clumsy and uses a lot of over-flowery language. Joe thinks, "Aha, it's a young writer." He states this new discovery and guesses Dennis. (1 point?)

But Joe's just not very lucky today; it wasn't Dennis. However, looking over his trusty spreadsheet, he notes that only one young, male author has not been guessed: Edmund. He guesses Edmund, and, lo, he is correct! (5 points)

So at the end of the round does Joe have 5 points, 8 points, 9 points, or 10 points?
 
Posted by Julie (Member # 5580) on :
 
I think 9.
 
Posted by Jeni (Member # 1454) on :
 
I was thinking ten, but I'm not too sure.
 
Posted by Julie (Member # 5580) on :
 
See, this is why numbers are evil.
 
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
Right now though the winner of the round does not necessarily get maxium points on the round. An idea to correct that problem: You can get a maximum of 4 points according to the previous criteria but, if you do get the writer correct, you bump up to five. This doesn't limit your guesses, just puts a points cap on, to make it fair for the winner who may only guess once and get it right the first time.

AJ
 
Posted by katharina (Member # 827) on :
 
I like that.
 
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
 
But need the person who guesses right always get the most points?
 
Posted by Jeni (Member # 1454) on :
 
Yup. [Wink]
 
Posted by Julie (Member # 5580) on :
 
I don't think so. They could guess right by noticing something simple like word choice where others spend the time to analyze the piece for literary merit.
 
Posted by Julie (Member # 5580) on :
 
quote:
Yup. [Wink]
[ROFL] I wonder why you say that.
 
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
 
After thinking about it for a bit yeah. The person who guesses the author should get the most points. The whole point of "guess the author" is to guess the author. The critiques make it more interesting but some one who gets it right on a single intuitive leap hasn't actually performed as much grunt work work as the people who care to maintain complicated spreadsheets.

The person who guesses should have given at least one decent critique throughout the round. If they don't give at least one, then you could ding them points or only award 3 instead of five.

I'm personally anti-spreadsheet because to me that destroys the fun of wild guesses, but I don't begrudge the people who do that much work either.

AJ
 
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
 
IMO, not only should the person who guesses correctly get the most points, but people should not be rewarded by multiple guesses of steadily decreasing quality.
 
Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :
 
Speaking for the "grunt" contingent, I have to disagree. I always saw this game as more of a way to elicit constructive criticism than merely a guessing game. So it makes perfect sense to me that a person who puts the time and effort in to develop critiques and good rationales to get to the correct answer should get more points than the person who stumbles onto it.
 
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
 
I don't want to reward spreadsheets, but I definitely want to reward critique. That is as much a point of this as guessing, if not more. The only reason it's called "Guess the Author" is that "Deduce the Author based on a reasoned critique of the writing" is too awkward.
 
Posted by Jeni (Member # 1454) on :
 
I think the revised system you suggested at the end of the first page is just fine. Maybe have a limit to the number of points earned by guesses with a rationale.
 
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
 
Okay, how about this -- one to three points at the end of the round based on critique.

No points for individual guesses, but guesses without rationale can not win.

Five points for correct, supported, guess.
 
Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :
 
Hmph. I don't know the reason behind all the spreadsheet-hating, but I suspect I'm outnumbered on this one, so I'll just shut up.
 
Posted by imogen (Member # 5485) on :
 
I have another suggestion for amendment... Jeni gets barred from guessing in the early stages to give everyone else a chance to compete!

[Wink]
 
Posted by celia60 (Member # 2039) on :
 
i love that you make spreadsheets. it's just so you. it's wonderful!
 
Posted by Scythrop (Member # 5731) on :
 
I can't believe it - I wake up, and it's all over.

Still, Well done Jenni! Top work.
 
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
 
Another thought – while insightful critique and logical deduction is important, it’s the multiple guessers who have kept the game alive and moving. So I don’t really want to discourage them, either.
 
Posted by Jeni (Member # 1454) on :
 
Well, they still have a shot at the five points.
 
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 
As one of the multiple-guesser-types, I'm ok with the new scoring system.

But could it not be retroactive? I kinda like being in the lead pointwise. ::puppy-eyes::
 
Posted by eslaine (Member # 5433) on :
 
I need to think about the piece before I guess. But as far as spreadsheets go--they ROCK!

And I can't leave this comment unremoved from it's context.

quote:
1. Gender can go both ways on this one, though I'd lean to male.

[Eek!] (I had no idea T!)
 
Posted by Julie (Member # 5580) on :
 
What about those times when the author is just so random or their writing is unlike their usual style and therefore there is no real rationale for guessing? People won't guess someone without a really good reason for fear of not getting points. In some cases the only way the author will be guessed is if it's really random. I'm not sure I'm making sense, but chemistry working is messing with my brain right now.
 


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