Hatrack River Forum: Question about Portuguese

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Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :

How different is modern Portuguese from the Portuguese that was spoken in the mid 16th century?

There is a report by Domingos de Seixas, a Portuguese person who lived in Thailand in the mid-16th century, detailing daily life in Ayuthaya during that time. I would absolutely *love* to read this. Unfortunately, there doesn't appear to be an English translation available. It occurred to me that I could learn Portuguese and translate it, but (aside from the fact that this would take me years) it occurs to me that Portuguese from that time period might be so different as to be untelligible to me even after I'd learned the modern language.

Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :

Jacarre? Eduardo? Anybody?

Posted by Jacare Sorridente (Member # 1906) on :

Sorry Noemon- took me a while to see your thread here.

The best answer I can give you is based on a very limited sample (ie one). I have a text of Don Quixote in Portuguese. The book isn't all that old but the language is certainly on the archaic side. I'll have to check to see when the translation was done.

At any rate, the old Portuguese is about what you would expect: roughly comparable to the similarities between modern English and teh King James version of the Bible. There are also a lot more similarities to Spanish in the old Portuguese as compared to modern Brazilian Portuguese.

In general I'd say that with a good Portuguese dictionary (not a Portuguese to English dictionary) and fluent Portuguese one would likely have very little trouble in translating a Portuguese document from the 1500s.

Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :

Thanks Jacare. That was about what I figured you'd say, but I thought it would be a good thing to check before I started learning the language or something (note that my learning Portuguese would be quite a long way down the line. Right now I'm working on Spanish, and Thai is next in line behind it).

Posted by Jacare Sorridente (Member # 1906) on :

Maybe you should learn Spanish and Portuguese at the same time. They are very similar in structure and share a large portion of vocabulary.

Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :

Yeah, I know they're pretty similar, and I expect that once I've gotten good at Spanish, Portuguese won't be too difficult. I would think, though, that if I were to start learning both of them at the same time, they'd blur together in my mind, causing me to make mistakes in both languages.

Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :

It's funny--this wouldn't be the first time I've decided to learn a language just to read a particular text. Last time it was The Illiad.

Posted by Lissande (Member # 350) on :

Really? What language did you have to learn that time?

Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :

French. Imagine my frustration when I realized it had also been translated into English.

Posted by Lissande (Member # 350) on :

You mean you didn't already speak English? How frustrating to have to start all over with a new language after all that effort learning French.

The best Iliad is in Czech, anyway. Or at least it will be once I finish translating it.

Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :

I have to disagree--my Linear A Illiad will blow your Czech Illiad out of the water. All I have to do is crack Linear A and perform the translation, and your Czech translation will be seen as nothing more than a footnote in the history of Illiad translation.

Posted by Jacare Sorridente (Member # 1906) on :

quote:
Yeah, I know they're pretty similar, and I expect that once I've gotten good at Spanish, Portuguese won't be too difficult. I would think, though, that if I were to start learning both of them at the same time, they'd blur together in my mind, causing me to make mistakes in both languages.

Possibly true. I learned Spanish first then Portuguese. Now a goodly portion of my Spanish comes out Portuguese. Oh Well, at least I've never had any real trouble being understood. I had to give a sermon to a Spanish speaking audience a few days ago and no one's eyes glazed over any more than would be expected.

Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :

And of course, my Pig Latin translation is considered by many to be the best of its generation.

Ingsay, Oddessgay...

It just gets better from there.

Posted by Lissande (Member # 350) on :

[Roll Eyes]

ok, i can play your silly game. yours is better. [Roll Eyes]

like anyone's really going to believe that [Smile]

(edit to fall on floor laughing at pig latin)

[ October 24, 2003, 04:05 PM: Message edited by: Lissande ]

Posted by ana kata (Member # 5666) on :

<dies laughing> You two kill me!

Noemon, I decided to learn Greek to read the Iliad, too. I spent maybe 20 hours on it and then gave up. I inquired about taking greek at the local university and I was told I had to have two years of latin first before they would let me into the first greek course. Well, of course that was way more than two years ago and I probably needed latin too but I really wanted to LEARN greek. So I bought some books and a Liddell and Scott and started but didn't get all that far. Did you take a course or teach yourself? I'm really admiring and sort of jealous that you succeeded where I failed. [Hail]