I swear these 4 words are all pronounced the same. But according to several people in the chat, they're not. i suppose i'm leaving out the w sound in gawn and dawn. but it just sounds weird to put it in. i'm so confused. perhaps it's the southern accent?
Posted by Da_Goat (Member # 5529) on :
Yeah, I pronounce Don like Dawn.
It's kind of like all these New Englanders that come to Prescott (New England, especially Maine and New Hampshire, seem to have a thing for Prescott, Arizona...I think it's the victorian houses and snow, but I'm not sure.) and try to tell us that you're supposed to pronounce the "u" in "aunt," the dimwits. "Aunt" is most obviously pronounced exactly like "ant."
Posted by luthe (Member # 1601) on :
In Pittsburgh, we not only have our own garbled version of a bunch of words we also can't spell, as proof I offer the word "Iggle" it is said just like it i looks, that is eagle by the way.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
What's gahn? (is a linguist, frustrated by weird phonetic spellings
Posted by Rappin' Ronnie Reagan (Member # 5626) on :
Gahn isn't actually a word. It's something Jeni invented to describe how she pronounced the last syllable of Oregon. What started this whole thing was me asking whether the people in the chat pronounced Oregon ore-GONE or ore-GUN. And I was completely confused by the answers.
edit: the capitilization of gone and gun in the pronunciations of oregon isn't to show stress, it's to emphasize the differences between the two pronunciations. and now that i think about it i probably pronounce it somewhat like or-uh-g'n. i don't know any of those phonetic symbol thingies. which is probably why i'm failing linguistics...
[ October 07, 2003, 09:02 AM: Message edited by: Rappin' Ronnie Reagan ]
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
Sorry to be a pain about it. I know there really isn't any way to do it with a normal keyboard anyway. It's just that there are apparently people who pronounce gone and gun the same. Or the reverse of how sane, moral people do. jk.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Throughout most of the U.S., word pairs like don/dawn and cot/caught are pronounced the same. In some parts (mostly back East, I believe), the vowels are different. Don has an unrounded open front vowel like the sound in pot.Dawn has a rounded open-mid back vowel like the sound in for (which is a little bit like the sound in spoke, except that the English "oh" sound is actually a diphthong of a schwa plus a long "oo").
Clear as mud, right?
The Oregahn/Oregun thing is another issue, like the Colorahdo/Colorado and Nevahda/Nevada thing (where "ah" is like pot and "a" is like pat). Apparently, Florida can be pronounced Florida, Flahrida, Flawrida, and Flowrida.
[ October 07, 2003, 11:26 AM: Message edited by: Jon Boy ]
Posted by msakaseg (Member # 3826) on :
I know several Oregonians that get extremely irritated when they hear people say "Oregahn."
I try to pronounce the state names as the natives do (Nevadduh, Coloraddo, Oregun, etc.), although I often slip up with a Colorahdo here and there. Although, Coloradans (what do they call themselves, anyway?) don't seem to care how you pronounce their state's name. And it's a little silly, I suppose, since I don't slip on a Southern or New England or New York accent to say place names from those regions.
Posted by Jeni (Member # 1454) on :
Anyone say Flor-da?
Posted by msakaseg (Member # 3826) on :
Juliette says Flahr-duh.
Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
Whenever I look at this thread title, I hear "comma comma down, dooby do down down... comma comma down, dooby do down down..."
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
quote:Throughout most of the U.S., word pairs like don/dawn and cot/caught are pronounced the same. In some parts (mostly back East, I believe), the vowels are different.
Is it really most of the US? I mean, just about every single movie and TV show has the characters speak this "eastern" way, unless its a period or regional dialect they are using.
Its actually mind-boggling to me that caught and cot rythme to you. The football and baseball announcers certainly don't say it that way.
Edit: I guess I don't have to worry about an accent bugging me when I go out there then rivka . Of course, I will probably have to stop saying "wicked". Thats wicked lame, that word is wicked cool.
[ October 07, 2003, 05:16 PM: Message edited by: Xavier ]
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
I live in SoCal, home of the "standard American accent" (or so I've been told).
I would not say cot and caught the same; nor Don and dawn. Does most of the U.S. really do so? I hadn't thought so. But then again, I don't know too many people from "those flat states in the middle" IRL. Except for my mom, and she's from the part of Illinois that has the same accent as SoCal. Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
Speaking of States: If you pronounce the S in Illinois people assume you are from Missurah.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Okay, I guess I was wrong. But a significant number of people pronounce them the same, though it's hard to pick out a real pattern to it. It seems that the differentiation is more common back east, though there are definite regions (New England, Pennsylvania to Ohio, the Great Plains and the West) where pronouncing them both like cot is more prevalent. Next time I watch TV, I will pay special attention to see how they're pronounced.
And just so you know, SoCal is not the home of the "Standard American Dialect." That would most likely be Ohio.
[ October 07, 2003, 05:25 PM: Message edited by: Jon Boy ]
Posted by msakaseg (Member # 3826) on :
quote:I live in SoCal, home of the "standard American accent" (or so I've been told).
Not sure what linguists say, but to an actor, "Standard American" means that sort of snooty-sounding accent you often hear in old black and white movies.
quote:I would not say cot and caught the same; nor Don and dawn.
I would. And most of the people I talk to around here do, too. Actually, rivka, if I didn't know you lived in L.A. I would have thought you were from back East somewhere, from your speech anyway.
Posted by Xavier (Member # 405) on :
Those maps rule Jon Boy. Almost allows me to forgive you for speaking funny .
I will now procede to spend the next hour or so looking at maps.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
That's a fascinating link, JB.
What's most intriguing is the sparsity of responses from most of the Midwest. I know the population density accounts for a bit of it, but not that much, surely?
Wow, look at how many different results there are for "aunt"!
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Well, I was mostly raised in Utah. I can't help it if I talk a little funny (though many people have told me that I don't really sound like a Utahn).
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote: Actually, rivka, if I didn't know you lived in L.A. I would have thought you were from back East somewhere, from your speech anyway.
*blinks* Really? How interesting. I do have a faint Jersey accent still, I think. But I've been told it's pretty faint. I have friends who are native Californians who speak the same as I do -- at least, I think I do. I tend to be oblivious to mild accents, I recently noticed.
Ok, so I have a "mutt" accent. That's cool.
[ October 07, 2003, 05:32 PM: Message edited by: rivka ]
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
The problem with regional accents is that everyone thinks that they speak "the right way" and that most people talk like them.
Posted by msakaseg (Member # 3826) on :
I may be a bit more sensitive to accents and dialects than your average listener. I like to listen to the way people speak and try to guess where they're from. I once had a coworker be very surprised when I asked him where he was from, because he thought his Alabama accent was pretty much gone. I thought that was strange because, to me, it was as clear as day that he was from the South but had just been here for a while.
Not to say that I'm some sort of Henry Higgins; I screw it up all the time. Still, most of the people I have heard say "caught" and "cot" differently (or similar pairs) have either been from some other region or their parents were.
Posted by Jeni (Member # 1454) on :
Slightly off subject, but looking at those maps, there is a question about drive-thru liquor stores. These actually exist? Doesn't that sound kind of odd to anyone else?
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
In my old journalism classes, it was assumed that the "Ohio accent" was the "universal" American accent, one that would be considered generally uninflected and "neutral" by most listeners.
Posted by Maccabeus (Member # 3051) on :
I feel odd now...I pronounce cot and caught the same, but not dawn and don.
Posted by Da_Goat (Member # 5529) on :
Speaking of native pronunciations, if you ever come to Prescott, Arizona, and want to fit in, make sure you pronounce it pres-kit, not pres-kaht like it looks.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
*cough* You're a little slow, Tom.
Goat, my mom thought I was saying it wrong when I said "Preskit." I'm glad to know that I'm saying it the right way.
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
I grew up in Colorado, and I assure you, to everyone there, it's Cahl-uh-RAH-do. I was also told when living there that the Coloradan accent was considered perfectly neutral and national advertising companies hired voice-overs from Denver. When I moved to Montana (Mon-TAN-uh ), I was told that the Montanan accent was considered perfectly neutral and that national advertising companies liked to hire voice-overs from here. Now, this I know is untrue because not only to Montana natives pronounce bag, flag and wag with a long A sound, but the population here isn't enough to supply the needs of any sizeable national advertising company.
All I know is that I speak "the right way" and most people talk like me.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Colorado and Montana are relatively neutral, because they're part of the North Midland dialect, which is considered standard American English. Every region has its little quirks, though. Also, I've heard that Salt Lake City is a major center for telemarketing because of its neutral accent. Of course, Utahns talk funny, too, but I probably make fun of Utah accents too much already.
What exactly do you mean by the "long A sound"? I'm assuming you're referring to the fallacious long/short distinction that was inexplicably forced upon us all in elementary school. Some parts of the Midwest (mostly the northern Midwest, I believe), Montana, and southern Canada pronounce ag with an unrounded open-mid or close-mid front vowel (eg and ayg, respectively). My mother-in-law, being a Canadian, does this, and I think it's funny ("Would you like a beggle?"). Don't tell Ruth that I'm saying this, though. She'll probably poke me for it.
[ October 09, 2003, 02:01 PM: Message edited by: Jon Boy ]
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
(runs to tell Ruth) hee hee hee
What I mean by the long A is that a bag becomes a bAYg. I would write beg, which I pronounce as bAYg, but they would pronounce beg as bEHg.
A bagel is a bAYgel in Colorado, but a bEHgle in Montana. I don't know why they break their own rule for that one. Probably just to make me mad.
And then there's the indian accent, which is almost Irish in tone. And they use "init?" like Canadians use "eh?" It's great. You gotta love them, init?
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
I honestly have no idea what you mean, Annie. Why can't you learn the International Phonetic Alphabet like the rest of us? Maybe if you used French accents, I would understand.
[ October 09, 2003, 03:02 PM: Message edited by: Jon Boy ]
Posted by Dragon (Member # 3670) on :
quote: I will probably have to stop saying "wicked". Thats wicked lame, that word is wicked cool.
No you won't, convert the rest of the world!
quote: I feel odd now...I pronounce cot and caught the same, but not dawn and don.
Me too Maccabeus.
My Dad (from NJ) is always complaining about the way we (born and rased in NH) pronounce "odd" and "awed" the same way.
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
Again, with diacritical marks for Jon Boy:
OK, pretend you're French.
When Annie types AY, she means é When Annie types EH, she means è When Annie types UH, she means e
My, wasn't that facile? Now if you'll pardonnez moi, je vais to devise a plan to incorporate diacritical marks into the langue anglaise so everyone can learn to talk the right way, comme moi.
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Okay then. That's what I thought you meant. Now I can officially make fun of you for pronouncing things weird.
In standard American English:
beg = behg (not bayg) bag = bag bagel = baygel
You say you're from Colorado? Odd. Where are your parents from?
[ October 09, 2003, 06:19 PM: Message edited by: Jon Boy ]
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
I'm too proud to beg, baby.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote: In standard American English:
beg = behg (not bayg) bag = bag bagel = baygel
See! I told y'all I speak standard American English.
And Mr. Grammar Nazi, sir, since when is "weird" an adverb?
*flees*
Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
Since I felt like using it as one.
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
From what Anni says, I have to assume that I have traces of a Montana accent. Strange, since I live in Indiana.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote: Since I felt like using it as one.
Just to let you know, I plan on stealing that response. It gets extra points for chutzpah. Posted by Jon Boy (Member # 4284) on :
It actually spreads from Midwest across the northern Great Plains to southern Canada.
In other words, you probably just have an Indiana accent.
Posted by Annie (Member # 295) on :
No, I think this is yet more evidence of the cultural influence Montana is exerting on the rest of the country. After all, Sarah Vowell is from Bozeman, as was Gary Cooper.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
. Of course, I will probably have to stop saying "wicked". Thats wicked lame, that word is wicked cool.![[Dont Know]](graemlins/dontknow.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
.![[Hat]](graemlins/hat.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
), I was told that the Montanan accent was considered perfectly neutral and that national advertising companies liked to hire voice-overs from here. ![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)