I almost renewed my lease today at my apartments. Literally seconds before I was handed the signed lease by the secretary, a new prospective tenant came in. The resident manager excused herself and went to talk to the new tenant. "We are offering a special of a 12-month lease for a 1 bedroom for $399," she told her. WTF?? I negotiated my terms a few days ago. I thought I had gotten the best deal I could. I wanted a free month in exchange for a 14 month lease. I have gotten free months for renewing before in my three years here, and I really needed as I am out of work and my unemployment has run out The landlord doesn't know I am not working. The best I could do was $400 off this month and a rent decrease from $550 a month to $535 for 14 months. I was ready to sign until I heard this $399 figure. If she had said "we give a free month rent with a 12 month lease" I would've thought nothing of it, this is standard in Atlanta lately. Also the secretary spilled her guts when I asked about the $399 deal. They have evicted a lot of people and lots haven't renewed. All of the aprtments in the area are dropping their rents due to the poor economy. Another employee who's a good friend told me occupancy is only 70% or less,they are having cash flow problems and are not paying all their contractors. She also said Pam the manager responds to the personal touch and doesn't like it when tenants are too demanding. I have paid my rent on time for 3 years and never call maintenace. I live alone, don't smoke or drink, no pets, no relatives, I am a model tenant. My options are: 1)sign the lease I already have. It's typed up and Pam has already signed it. I was too angry to be polite so I left with the lease to think about it. This is my fallback position. 2) Drive the best bargain I can 3)Bluff that I may leave. This is a bluff because without a job a move is impossible. She doesn't know I am unemployed, however, and I already have a signed lease to fall back on. I'm going to get local rental quotes to help do this. 4)lessen the term to 6, 9 or 12 months 5)upgrade into a 2-bedroom for approximately the same price. Any negotiating tips would be greatly appreciated. I will emphasize to Pam that I am trying to deal in good faith, just had last minute doubts. I've already paid her the $150 due according to the previously negotiated terms. HELP! I need to do something today or tomorrow.
Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
Why not just walk in and tell her honestly that you heard her tell the other couple that the rent was only $399 and wondered if you could get the same deal. (I'm kinda surprised that a company that rents that many apartments has different prices for different tenants. I would think that would get them into all kinds of trouble with the EEOC.
How big is the complex? Can you have a friend call and ask how much rent is? If you do, ask them to ask if that is an "introductory" rent price.
Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :
Is there a possibility that the difference in price is due to something else? The apartments in my building vary in price based on what floor they are on.
Do you belong to any type of minority group? It can be race, sex, age, disability, sexual orientation, occupation, ugliness, etc. Just insinuating that she might be charging you more money due to your "background" should scare her enough to give you a negotiating advantage.
Posted by msquared (Member # 4484) on :
Kayla
It is only a problem if you offer different prices to different people of different races, sexs, religions, etc. If they offer they same introductory rate to all new tenants, then they are probably on safe ground.
I would expect the fact that Morbo is a long time tenant would work in his favor. I KNOW that it costs landlords money to spruce up an apartment after some one has moved out. Even if he gets $25/month off his rent, it would probably take several years to make up what it would cost to spruce up the place.
I just hope Morbo gets work, because if you get this deal and then can not make your payments, you will look like a total jerk.
msquared
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
All the floor plans are basically the same square footage, with minor layout differences. This is not a factor. The complex is about 180 units. The only amenity is a small pool. I am a white male (technically males are a minority, but try to get a feminist to acknowlege this.) The $399 deal is offered to anyone with approved credit, as far as I can tell. My friend AB who works there said they have begun offering $399 rent to remain competitive and get new tenants to shore up their huge vacancy rates, approx. 35% to 25% vacancy. I didn't realize evictions, move outs and vacancies in general had spiked so much lately. They have also raised the refferrel fee to $300 if you get a friend to move in. They seem a little desperate the more I learn.
AB also said I'll never get down to $399 like a new tenant. $500 might be reasonable. She said she pays $550 per month for her 2-bedroom, which is why she suggested an upgrade to a 2-bedroom as an option. Then I would either have more room or could even get a roommate.
[ October 06, 2003, 03:17 PM: Message edited by: Morbo ]
Posted by msquared (Member # 4484) on :
If you have someone you know who is lookig for a place and that you can stand, have them sign up for the double and move in with them.
msquared
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
quote:I would expect the fact that Morbo is a long time tenant would work in his favor. I KNOW that it costs landlords money to spruce up an apartment after some one has moved out. Even if he gets $25/month off his rent, it would probably take several years to make up what it would cost to spruce up the place.
They also give $300 or more to refferal agencies, and the $300 for tenant referrals. It costs a LOT to get a new tenant moved in. I have already pushed the fact that I'm a good tenant as far as I can, though I will reemphasize it at my next meeting.
quote:I just hope Morbo gets work, because if you get this deal and then can not make your payments, you will look like a total jerk.
No doubt, I would look like a total doofus if I come back 1 month later with problems.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
That's a good idea msquared, but I don't know anybody looking for a place.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
It sounds like you're in an excellent position to bargain. If they fail to retain you, they'll be hard pressed to rent the space you're currently occupying, and ~$400/month for an apartment definitely beats $0/month, which is what they'll almost certainly what they'll be getting if you leave.
Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :
Go around your neighborhood and look for comparable apartments. Write down the special rent discounts they offer and then show this to your landlord. Tell her you will pick one of these new places unless she can give you a good reason to stay. If she refuses, tell her that you will take this up with the building's owners. At worst, you get stuck with your current lease.
Or, you can actually move out to another apartment offering one of these desperation rates. Do you have a friend or family member willing to co-sign your lease with you?
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
Yes, I feel I can get *something* more out of them. The question is, how much should I hold out for?
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
quote: Go around your neighborhood and look for comparable apartments. Write down the special rent discounts they offer and then show this to your landlord. Tell her you will pick one of these new places unless she can give you a good reason to stay. If she refuses, tell her that you will take this up with the building's owners. At worst, you get stuck with your current lease.
Beren. This is my current plan pretty much. It seems like, worst-case I'll piss off Pam but sign the lease I have now, so I don't really have much to lose.
I don't know if even with a co-signer I could get a new apartment somewhere else with bad credit and no job.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
If I were you I'd hold out for exactly the same deal they're offering new tenants.
Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :
Hold out for complete parity with the new tennants. You have the signed lease in your hands, you have all the power.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
It is a weird situation. If they had had the lease typed in advance like Pam promised on Friday, I would have already signed it. Waiting while the lease was typed up gave me that crucial last-minute info about the $399 deal. So now I have a management-signed lease and some unique leverage, as Noeman and Beren just pointed out. I still don't think I can get down to $399 according to what AB said, but all I can do is try.
Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :
There is no harm in trying. Just be very, very pleasant.
Your landlady is not the owner right? Maybe you can contact the owner (most likely a corporation?) and see what they say as well.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
That's why I left with the lease--I was too mad to calmly negotiate. Plus it gave me time to think, explore my options, call my mother and stepfather for advice, and start this thread for advice.
Now I am calm and considering calling them. I am leery of making an end-run or going behind her back to the owning corporation. Tatctics like this can often backfire, I've found. I am considering it as an option, though. Or just a veiled threat if I am not getting anywhere with Pam, and she holds the owners as responsible. This is a common tactic that is infuriating, as the person who you are dealing with denies ultimate responsibility, yet you cannot talk to the true decision maker.
Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :
Yes, I agree that contacting the owners should be the last option. I'm glad that you are feeling less emotional about the subject. It is only business, nothing personal. Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
What I do in circumstances like that is apologize for taking up the time of the wrong person, and ask them to give me the name and phone number of the person who *does* have the authority to help me. It often works.
Posted by Zan (Member # 4888) on :
Maybe you could go for $450 a month. That way, you come out ahead and so do they in a way. $450 beats the $399 they would get if they rented out your place to a new tenant. And that's IF they could rent it out.
At this point, they have absolutely no reason to think that you don't have a job, so they have no reason to think you won't move elsewhere.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
I would be ecstatic if I could get $450.
quote: What I do in circumstances like that is apologize for taking up the time of the wrong person, and ask them to give me the name and phone number of the person who *does* have the authority to help me. It often works.
Ooooh, I like this. Passive aggressive negotiating. I'll remember this tip.
Thanks for all the input!
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
So I called around the area, and the going rate is $400-500 a month. Only one place was over $500 and they have more amenities. We have only a small pool.
I'm going to in to talk to Pam shortly. I am not as mad as I was yesterday but I am not happy. I hate to be taken like a chump.
Posted by msquared (Member # 4484) on :
They are not treating you like a chump. Don't go in with that attitude. Of course they are going to try and keep current tenants at their current rent. Why shouldn't they?
msquared
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
I understand someone trying to get all the market will bear. What pisses me off is when people try to squeeze me for every last nickle.
Posted by msquared (Member # 4484) on :
If they were trying to raise your rent when they were offering specials to new people, that would be squeezing. Not telling you about move in specials is not squeezing. That is just good business.
msquared
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
I see what you're saying, m, I might do the same thing if the roles were reversed. My problem is they want MORE than the market will bear. They don't want to acknowledge that the rental market has collapsed in the area and in the complex.
Posted by msquared (Member # 4484) on :
Yes, but you did not do your homework on the market. You were glad to just get the free month.
When I worked retail sales, it was not my job to tell the customer that the guy down the street had the same thing for $10 less.
Believe me, I understand where you are coming from, but to expect the landlord to send letters to all the tenants and say, "Since the market is depressed, we are going to lower your rent by $100/month" is asking a whole hell of a lot. YOU, as the consumer, have some responsibilty to see that you are getting as good a deal as you can.
msquared
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
True, I am mad at myself for not doing market reasearch until it was almost too late.
Posted by Zan (Member # 4888) on :
So, how did it go?
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
Thanks for asking, Zan. Unfortunately, I have fallen prey to my nemeses of old, procrastination and indecision.
I'm not sure what to do. I've gotten advice here and from my family but cannot make up my mind. I had planned to talk to Pam when they opened the apartment office this morning, but now it's 3pm and I want to put it off another day. I should at least call her.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Go Now, if the apartment office is still open. It is better for you to show up in the afternoon anyway, dress up like you just came from work, even though you don't have a job currently.
AJ
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Ah, good idea AJ!
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
Hmmm, I hadn't thought of that, AJ. I guess the afternoon does look better.
Posted by Zan (Member # 4888) on :
I'm not sure why, but I have to know how this turned out.
Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :
I know why. Because we hate to see Morbo get ripped off. Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
Thanks for asking. I am going to meet with Pam this afternoon, around 5pm EST .
I haven't made my mind up yet about what I will do. I am gripped with indecision and I hope the meeting doesn't become too confrontational. Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
I have also been following this thread avidly.
Best of luck this afternoon, Morbo!
Posted by Zan (Member # 4888) on :
Go Morbo, Go Morbo!!
Posted by SirReal (Member # 5257) on :
Morbo, Less Rent, Morbo, Less Rent.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
I know it isn't everyone's style, and it may not be yours, but I think I would start the meeting by telling Pam exactly what you just posted.
"I am gripped with indecision and don't want to see this meeting become too confrontational."
There are others who might be able to suggest more tactful opening lines but to me it is your heartfelt truth that matters and will be conveyed by those words.
AJ
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
hmmm, that might work, AJ. Thanks. It's honest and might help my cause as well.
Thanks to everyone for all the advice and cheerleading. I'm glad I started this thread. I think I might try to get the best deal I can for 6-months. This will give me time to get a job and look for a new place more calmly then I'd have to to move by Halloween.
[ October 09, 2003, 03:00 PM: Message edited by: Morbo ]
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
So I talked with Pam the manager just now. These are the options I have, she came down some on my rent. I believe these are the best terms I can get here. I've already paid $150 this month. New rent would start Oct 1. month to month: rent $650, no bonus--I'd owe $400 more for this month 3mo lease: $575 , no bonus--I'd owe $400 6mo lease: $550, $150 bonus--I'd owe$250 9mo:same as 6 month lease--not an option 12mo:$525, $400 bonus 14mo:$515, $400 bonus.
So she caved a little on the rent for 12 mo or 14 mo, $400 is the most I'm getting as a signing bonus. I'll sleep on it and sign something tomorrow afternoon.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
Well, better than it could've been, not quite what you'd hoped.
But certainly better than if you'd done nothing. So give yourself a pat on the back. And good luck making the decision.
Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
How much would it be to move out for a day and move into a different apartment in the same complex?
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
You have a devious mind, Kayla. I don't think that would fly.
Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
Why not?
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
Are you on AIM, Kayla? Could you e-mail me your AIM id?
Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
No, I'm not even really on the computer. I was only here for a few minutes while my husband was eating dinner. Now the he's done, he wants the computer back.
Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
Though, my screen name (when I'm actually on) is Kaylar199. I think. Anyone know if that is right?
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
I'll try later on when you're on the computer.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
I just signed a new lease for 12 months at $525 a month, with the $400 off I already received this month as a signing bonus. This was their 4th and final offer, I doubt I could have gotten any better no matter what I did. My old rent is $550, managments 3rd offer was to come down to $535 for 14 months with the $400 bonus. I learned or applied several things in this negotiation.
Never take the first offerTheir first offer was rent to stay at $550, a $100 signing bonus. I farted in its general direction--Ha!
Always keep things as polite and business-like as possible, even if you detest your negotiating opponent (not the case here, I like Pam.) This is why I left abruptly the day I got the 1st lease (see above posts)--I knew I was too upset to deal with the issues rationally. Shouting, name-calling and throwing things may work in the Mafia, elsewhere you just look pathetic and do not further your cause.
Use time pressure to your advantage. Pam was getting heat from the owners to seal the deal, because she had already given me a signed lease and accepted a $150 rent money order--this weakened her position somewhat.
Hide your disadvantages, exploit your opponents disadvantages. I thought all the evictions and rental market softening would help me more, but at least she never found out I was jobless and could not move
If you have a good fallback position, bluff! The signed lease I had was an excellent fallback option and would hold up in court. I had little to lose by bluffing that I was considering moving and wound up saving $120, over 12 months.
Do your homework! The more info you have the more likely you can get the best deal possible. I violated this by not doing any market research until it was almost too late. I should have before beginning negotiations even though I had no plans to move
Hardball can get you a better deal--but it's risky. I gambled that I could push Pam just a little more. She might have decided I was not negotiating in good faith when I refused to sign the 1st lease. After all, we had a deal, I just hadn't signed the contract. But she ended up coming down $10 per month, $20 if I had signed a 14 month lease.
Game theory and negotiating theory are great--but no substitute for practical experience!I have read about game theory and books on negotiating, but I have very little parctical experience at it.
Honesty in negotiating?I'll have to think about this one. But AJ's advice to be honest about my indecision might have helped, its hard to say. I hate lying and am not good at it, so telling the truth is always easier.
Thanks for all the good advice and kind wishes, everyone. AJ's advice to tell the truth and say that I was undecided helped at the last and crucial meeting. Right after I said I was honestly undecided and wasn't sure what I was going to do, Pam gave me her final rent numbers (Rent Version 4.0), caving slightly so we could compromise. Hmmmmm, telling the truth, what a novel negotiating strategy!! I wanted less than $500 per month rent, but I think I did the best I could considering all of the circumstances. I'll use the 12 month lease to get my stuff together, work on credit problems, get a job, and find a cheaper place. My God, looking that list over you'd think I was planning the AOL/Time-Warner merger!? All that just to get $25 lousy bucks off my rent!!
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
Yay!! See - all that work got you $700 ($400 signing bonus + $25/month off what you were paying). Sounds like a good deal to me!
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I wanted less than $500 per month rent, but I think I did the best I could considering all of the circumstances. I'll use the 12 month lease to get my stuff together, work on credit problems, get a job, and find a cheaper place. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)