In what sense does Arnold Schwartzenegger's 1975 comment that he admired Hitler for being a little guy that gained a lot of power through persuasion and public speaking, though he didn't approve of what Hitler did with that power, MAKE HIM A NAZI SYMPATHIZER?! [takes a breath] I mean SERIOUSLY! What happened to reading comprehension?! Didn't it used to be a requirement for entering college that people be able to understand the meaning of words strung together?
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
Charles Krauthammer just made the point on Fox news Sunday that it does highlight that perhaps Arnold admires and desires power for its own sake, troubling to hear about any politician.
[edit for Tak:true but. . . well, Krauthammer expanded on his remarks but I don't remember what he said. All the other talking heads nodded though.]
[ October 05, 2003, 12:05 PM: Message edited by: Morbo ]
Posted by T. Analog Kid (Member # 381) on :
Any politician admires and desires power... why else would they be in the business?
Posted by Rappin' Ronnie Reagan (Member # 5626) on :
Speaking of Nazis, apparently I became one for knowing Himmler's name. Thanks Ralphie. Posted by Argèn†~ (Member # 4528) on :
Where did AOL get that quote from? Since I don't have AOL, I cannot look at the article. However, I do know that the LA Times has already run articles that smear Schwartzenegger and are simply not true. The allegations alleged by the LAT were actually denied not only by Schwartzenegger, but by Ivan Reitman, as well as two other crew members who worked on the set. I advise people to be skeptical of any claims made by any party to cast another in a bad light. It's very easy to assume the worst about someone, and sometimes easier to assume the bad is true rather than the good. Politicians and party campaigners rely on this tendancy that people have. Until I can see substantiation of the claims, I don't quite buy it. Sorry, AOL is not very trustworthy, IMHO.
Posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong (Member # 2229) on :
Morbo's point is crucial.
I talked about rebellion for the sake of rebellion on this thread:
Just substitute "rebellion" for "power," and my arguments translate.
Any ruler, insofar as he is a ruler, should concern himself with only what is being ruled or cared for, the same applies for doctors and parents.
[ October 05, 2003, 12:36 PM: Message edited by: Irami Osei-Frimpong ]
Posted by T. Analog Kid (Member # 381) on :
Irami... that is absolutely true...however, sadly, those who would rule in that fashion are seldom ruthless enough to compete with those who want to rule for the sake of the power.
I include those with a "cause" in this group... I'm sure most people get into politics for the "right reasons" but I am equally sure that in order to become successful the need ofor power begins out-weighing the needs of their cause. In fact, if their beliefs continue to out weigh their powerlust, they will likely be labled an extremist who refuses to compromise or work together towards a "reasonable solution".
Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
Those are two interesting articles, read back to back.
Posted by A Rat Named Dog (Member # 699) on :
Morbo, from the way the quote is worded, and the context (it was during Schwartzenegger's Pumping Iron days), I suspect his admiration was less about political power (which he has never sought until now), and more about overcoming limitations through personal will and initiative.
[ October 05, 2003, 01:47 PM: Message edited by: A Rat Named Dog ]
Posted by A Rat Named Dog (Member # 699) on :
And holy crap, he said it THIRTY YEARS AGO. I wasn't even born yet. Think he MIGHT be a little more mature now?
Posted by Argèn†~ (Member # 4528) on :
So, the most accurate form of what was actually said is the following:
quote:He reportedly said he admired Hitler's rise to power despite being "a little man with almost no formal education."
Schwarzenegger came to the US with no money, worked odd jobs while bodybuilding, and eventually got lucky a few times and landed some good deals with bodybuilding contests, and later with film. He was saying he admires rising to power from nothing.
quote:The exchange from "Pumping Iron" that was in the book proposal was confirmed on Thursday by Peter Davis, a consultant to the documentary project who conducted the interviews of Mr. Schwarzenegger for the film, which chronicled the body-building culture. But Mr. Davis, who is also a documentary producer, suggested that the excerpt had been taken out of context in Mr. Butler's proposal, and that Mr. Schwarzenegger had gone on to say that he had changed his views on Hitler as he grew up in Austria.
But no, immediately, the worst is assumed, because if it's not spitting poison right from the outset, it's immediately assumed that he was praising what Hitler stood for. Amazing how when something is taken in proper context, the story looks different, isn't it? His dad was a Nazi, we know this. As he grew up, he learned to despise what Hitler stood for, while still being impressed that a "nobody" could accomplish so much as a human being. He is not saying he supports or ever supported what Hitler stood for, or the terrors that he did. Schwarzenegger is saying that he has always wanted to someday be someone who is memorable, and was inspired to persevere by the accounts of men who had done so. He followed that up with saying as he learned what Hitler stood for, he despised those things. So, why is it okay to vilify Schwarzenegger for saying he came to despise what Hitler stood for in a different way than the typical American did. He came from a different background, and still came to the same conclusion.
Posted by littlemissattitude (Member # 4514) on :
I think it is wise to be skeptical of any derogatory information about any political candidate - from any political party - that comes out less than a week before the election.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
quote: In the film [Pumping Iron, Arnold's first big break], Schwarzenegger never mentions Hitler, but says, "I was always dreaming about very powerful people, dictators and things like that. I was just always impressed by people who could be remembered for hundreds of years."
yahoo news Looks to me like he admires power for powers sake, at least when he was younger. Well, so did I. My hero was Hannibal. But I don't want to be governor of a major state.
quote: The actor and his wife, Maria Shriver, have since the 90's been very supportive of the Simon Wiesenthal Center in Los Angeles and its Museum of Tolerance, donating more than $1 million to the center.
This to me shores up any anti-Semitism charges, that's very generous donating. [edit: I mean such generous donating negates possible charges of anti-Semitism, not in a cynical way. Arnold also paid to have the Center investigate to see if his father was a Nazi. They confirmed he was. I don't think Arnold should be blamed for his father.]
[ October 05, 2003, 03:42 PM: Message edited by: Morbo ]
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
Yeah,I hate it when crap comes out in the last few days of a campaign. It's ususlly dirty politics from people with an agenda, even if the opposing candidate is not involved
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
Arnold could just release the film, then the public could judge the statement in context for itself. That he doesn't says a lot about his character.
Posted by A Rat Named Dog (Member # 699) on :
Lots of people have seen the film, own copies, or have accurate quotes. It's not exactly a huge secret that he's "covering up".
He's made it clear that he is willing to face character issues head-on and apologize where it's appropriate.
In the other half of these allegations (the groping scandal), I'm actually impressed that, for once, the Democrats think this sort of behavior is inappropriate in an executive officer ... though it would be nice if they applied this standard a little more universally.
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
Arnold groped 6 or more women, the man's presidential material--Letterman, paraphrased.
"I said I would grope you last. I lied."
Maybe this should be in the NPC humor thread?
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
"Lots of people" seeing all of the film shot -- not just the editted/shortened movie -- would include the director, the cameraman/men, the sound man, the lighting helper, and possibly a handful of others, eg the film developers.
As I said, it would be easy for Schwartznegger to dispel the rumors about what he meant, IF he thought the film would do so.
I'm not surprised that Republicans see nothing wrong with Arnold's unwanted behaviour toward women.
[ October 05, 2003, 11:31 PM: Message edited by: aspectre ]
Posted by A Rat Named Dog (Member # 699) on :
People are actually saying there's nothing wrong with the unwelcome groping of women?
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
A vote is the strongest form of speech.
BTW -- Arnold now owns&possesses the ~100hours of film shot for Pumping Iron in which the questionable remark was made, as well as the copyright.
[ October 06, 2003, 01:11 AM: Message edited by: aspectre ]
Posted by A Rat Named Dog (Member # 699) on :
So he owns an embarrassing early movie of his, which depicts him at a much younger and stupider time in his life. I, personally, am not too thrilled when my wife shows off baby videos of me, or when people see me in my early high school movies
This doesn't mean he has some kind of secret, scandalous Nazi sympathies that he wants to keep under wraps. If anything, his shame over his former comments is probably a GOOD thing. It means he would never say such things today.
[ October 06, 2003, 04:14 AM: Message edited by: A Rat Named Dog ]
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