A superintendent in Kansas has pulled copies of the novel We All Fall Down by Robert Cormier. The book is not being banned from the school; however, it is being pulled as an English class reading assignment. This is after the class had started to read it.
Not everyone in the above district supports this action by the way.
In the library in my school we have a copy of this book. I am going to read it. I cannot say what my opinion of it is now because I have not read it yet.
I would like for those who might have read the book to give me their opinion on whether or not it is suitable for high school students to be required to read it.
I am not a supporter of pulling books from libraries or banning books or anything else. Please do not assume this is my high school. I just want your learned opinions.
Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
Ha! Just from the description of the book, I'm not surprised that someone on KS pulled it. Remember, we are the dorks that were fiddling with State standards so they wouldn't include evolution. (Which, for those of you who didn't realize it, is not the same thing as not teaching it. )
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
I haven't read the whole book, I just read the first six pages on amazon.com and while the of the opening sentence of the first page is somewhat objectionable the rest of the pages didn't contain nearly as much as the first sentence. The plot seems a bit far fetched but in a high school class I would think it would be fine. The first sentence just seems to be a device to shock and grab the reader.
AJ
Posted by Narnia (Member # 1071) on :
Ok, now I have to go read the first sentence!!!
Posted by KarlEd (Member # 571) on :
What do you find objectionable about "They entered the house at 9:02 p.m. on the evening of April Fool's Day."?
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
second sentence then And as I re-read it it is basically describing exactly what they did literally. And considering it is a highschool level class they should be aware of what both the words are to begin with. Highschoolers have moved on to cussing with much more offensive language where I come from. But, maybe not in Kansas. No, I knew a Farmboy from KS once and he was quite comfortable with all the terminology used.
AJ (stream of consciousness reply)
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
Hey, I know. They could just change the words to fit the community standards. Or at least the standards of those people in the community who would be offended by those words.
Posted by screechowl (Member # 2651) on :
According to the article, the grounds for objection were both language and sexual situations.
I just wondered if anyone had read the full book.
Some communities are more suceptible to this kind of thing than others. I have never had the problem (yet!) as either a teacher or principal.
Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :
Ummmm.... banning the book will probably encourage more kids to read it than when it was merely a "homework assignment." Posted by screechowl (Member # 2651) on :
quote:Remember, we are the dorks that were fiddling with State standards so they wouldn't include evolution.
You sound a tad bitter, Kayla. You should adopt my tranquil philosophy. Just shoot the *&^)%$#'s.
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
Boy, ya got one sneaky superintendent there, tricking innocent schoolchildren into reading.
Posted by sarcasticmuppet (Member # 5035) on :
One English Class read Brave New World for an assignment. I wasn't in that class, but I borrowed a copy and read it anyway. Freaky stuff.
Posted by Bob the Lawyer (Member # 3278) on :
I think the saddest thing was when To Kill a Mockingbird was banned from my old district in Nova Scotia. It was banned because of "racist content". Someone COMPLETELY missed the point.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
quote:Hey, I know. They could just change the words to fit the community standards. Or at least the standards of those people in the community who would be offended by those words.
"Huckleberry Finn" gets complaints every year because of its racist content, despite the fact that the book is, among other things, an excellent look at a person who is brought up in a racist society who comes to understand why it's wrong.
By the way, next week is Banned Books Week. Tell your friends!
Posted by screechowl (Member # 2651) on :
From Young Readers Choice Awards:
quote:Vandalism, random violence, revenge, alcoholism-teens, troubled teens, divorce, loneliness, belonging, terror, helplessness, anger, love, dysfunctional families, family life, honesty, murder
Well, there you have it. Nothing realistic about this book.
On the other hand, is that justification for requiring the book in school?
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
I read it at the end of last year. I teach middle school kids. I know they would understand it. I know parents might object. I doubt I would teach it to them. I think high school kids could handle it.
I believe "Onion John" is taught in middle schools. It implies the sexual life of female slaves.
"To Be a Slave" by Julius Lester is a book of real stories about slaves. One of the first scenes describes all the womens' babies dying when a ditch fills with water, because the foremen won't let the women move them when it starts to rain.
Robert Cormier is dark, dark, dark. I love him.
There is nothing actually explicit which happens sexually, but much almost happens. It is scary.
It is a fantastic novel, but it is dark, sad, and real. The pain is real, the self reflection is real. Some people, well, "can't handle the truth," I guess. And maybe they shouldn't have to.
I wonder how they feel about "The Chocolate War," which is one of the darkest books I have ever read, but which is required reading in many schools. Or has been. Somewhere.(Kayla will set me straight, I am sure. hee hee)
Posted by screechowl (Member # 2651) on :
Thanks for the information, Elizabeth.
I was most surprised by the story in the Salina, KS Journal about the reaction of the superintendent to this book.
I like to think I would not react this way, but who knows what the details are. News sometimes overlooks details.
I recall the book I am the Cheese but cannot remember what it was about. I think my kids read it while growing up.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
I Am the Cheese was about a boy with troubles. I cannot bring myself to say more, because to say what it is about would ruin the plot!
Hmm. The same thing happens in WE ALL FALL DOWN as well. A big piece of the plot in both novels is very similar.
Posted by newfoundlogic (Member # 3907) on :
I HAD to read The Chocolate War in MIDDLE school. I didn't see any problem with it then and I don't see any problem with it now. People try to ban everything now. Farenheight 451, Harry Potter, Boy's Life, Scarlett Letter (which was an awful book), The Crucible, Huck Finn and Tom Sawyer, and so many more.
Posted by Pod (Member # 941) on :
Dude i read john Grisham's A Time To Kill in 9th grade.
Kids are -definitely- old enough to handle sex and violence. In fact, they should have to deal with it eventually, and i think a class room setting is probably better than getting to find out about it in the "real" world, or whatever. People need to talk about the bad things that others do, and what sort of reactions are sane, or civilized.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
I think the question, though, is whether it should be in the curriculum. I wonder if the superintendent got a deluge of complaints from parents.
Ironically, the content of "WE ALL FALL DOWN can be found in any newspaper. I just watched the latest Martha Moxley Dateline show. That is, basically, the same story.
What hit me the most about the novel was that it was not about delinquent miscreants as we are supposed to know them, but as wealthy kids out having some sick fun, and getting away with it.
Posted by A Rat Named Dog (Member # 699) on :
The idea of someone trying to ban Fahrenheit 451 is about the most hilarious bit of irony I've heard in a while.
Posted by suntranafs (Member # 3318) on :
yeah, I'm thinkin' so!
Posted by screechowl (Member # 2651) on :
quote:I think the question, though, is whether it should be in the curriculum. I wonder if the superintendent got a deluge of complaints from parents.
Elizabeth, to my knowledge from the story in the paper, there were two parental complaints.
The question is whether the book should be in the curriculum. That is what this district will be deciding.
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
I am pretty out of the loop of high school literature curriculum. I just can't see any reason not to. Didn't we read "East of Eden" in high school?(I am getting old, sorry) There is no theme in this book more or less disturbing than any Steinbeck novel, that I can think of.
I mean, how about good, old reliable Lord of the Flies for Pete's sake?
Posted by jexx (Member # 3450) on :
Gah. I hated "Lord of the Flies", and I read it as an adult.
"We All Fall Down" sounds very interesting, actually, and I'm going to see if there is a copy at the library. I'm also going to see if we have a copy at the bookstore where I work, so I can include it in the display we have up of Banned Books. (Which includes "The Diary of Anne Frank" and "All's Quiet On the Western Front", interesting, hey?)
I guess whether or not it is appropriate for a school's curriculum would depend upon which grade it is being taught. There is a big difference between a freshman and a senior, IMO. Of course, I used to sneak my mom's Jackie Collins books off of the top of the fridge when I was in sixth grade. *shrug*
Posted by Elizabeth (Member # 5218) on :
Can any of you youngsters provide a reading list from one of your high school English classes?
Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
Other parents have complained that the book was pulled and the School Board will be meeting tomorrow night to discuss it. "Regardless of tomorrow night's decision, the book still will be available in [name of school] school library for students to check out." That according to the news tonight. I'm surprised it made the news.
Just thought I'd update all y'all. Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
SUGGESTED OUTSIDE READING: Their Eyes Were Watching God , by Zora Neale Hurston Wide Saragasso Sea , by Jean Rhys The Canterbury Tales , by Goeffrey Chaucer The Awakening , by Kate Chopin Gulliver's Travels , by Jonathan Swift Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man , by James Joyce Crime and Punishment , by Fyodor Dostoyevski Mrs. Dalloway , by Virginia Woolf Beloved , by Toni Morrison A Passage to India , by E. M. Forster The Plague , by Albert Camus Jude the Obscure , by Thomas Hardy Graet Expectations , by Charles Dickens Exodus , by Leon Uris The Natural , by Bernard Malamud Zorba the Greek , by Nikos Kazantzakis Things Fall Apart , by Chinua Achebe The Bridge on the Drina , by Ivo Andric Lord Jim , by Joseph Conrad
OTHER SUGGESTED AUTHORS: Jane Austen Emily Bronte Kate Chopin Henry Fielding Hanry James D. H. Lawrence Vladimir Nabokov John Updike Virginia Woolf Saul Bellow Raymond Carver William Faulkner F. Scott Fitzgerald James Joyce Gabriel Garcia Marquez Mark Twain John Steinbeck Margaret Atwood George Eliot Thomas Hardy Alice Walker Kurt Vonnegut Charles Dickens Richard Wright George Bernad Shaw Ernest Hemingway E. M. Forester
Raia did all the trouble of typing this into the computer, I just copied it from the Classics Discussion thread. It's from our AP Literature and Composition Class.
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And as I re-read it it is basically describing exactly what they did literally. And considering it is a highschool level class they should be aware of what both the words are to begin with. Highschoolers have moved on to cussing with much more offensive language where I come from. But, maybe not in Kansas. No, I knew a Farmboy from KS once and he was quite comfortable with all the terminology used.![[Smile]](smile.gif)