This is topic I guess my father doesn't care how much longer we have him around for . . . in forum Books, Films, Food and Culture at Hatrack River Forum.
(And no, this isn't why I've been so pissy lately. I'll get around to that eventually, but right now it's just too much to think about.)
My father smoked since he was a teenager. When I was in high school, he quit.
When his first marriage fell apart, he started again. He smoked like a freaking chimney.
Then he had congestive heart failure. After the quadruple bypass, he quit cold turkey.
That was almost three years ago.
A little over a year ago doctors found his arteries were clogging up again. They did not dare to more surgery, so they did a partial angioplasty--only two of the valves or arteries or whatever, because they felt he was too fragile. His doctor told him to retire and he did.
A few months ago, he got divorced for the second time. Not that it's directly related, but it's probably relevant.
This summer we brought him with us to Biloxi on our last fling before school started again. As I was helping him with his bags, I noticed a pack of cigarrettes hidden away in there. I asked him about it, and he told me he only smoked once in a long while, when he was very stressed. I'm sure he could tell I wasn't happy about it, but I didn't make an issue over it. When I helped him move into a smaller apartment, he took a break to smoke a cigarrette outside. I didn't make an issue about it.
We had to leave our daughters with him when we had to fly out to California last week. (I know it sounds irresponsible to leave kids with a person with a heart condition. We had a friend acting as backup in case anything came up, but we simply don't have very much family, and we didn't have anyone else to leave them with.) Tuesday, we picked up the girls, and when we got home we noticed that all of their clean clothes in the suitcase, and their school backpacks all reek of cigarrette smoke.
I guess it didn't take long for this to stop being a front porch thing and go back to full scale chain smoking.
I said a year or so ago in the "What's going on in your life" thread that I didn't know how much longer we would have him for. That was before he decided smoking again would be a good thing.
I forget who it was in the suicide thread that said the rest of us don't have any intrinsic right to another's life . . . that our loved ones don't owe it to us to choose to live rather than die. Is this true? Should I stay off his case, let him decide how he wants to go out rather than spend his last months or years nagging him and destroying our relationship?
He's basically all the family I have.
I don't want him to die.
I damn sure don't want him to hurry toward death.
Posted by Ryuko (Member # 5125) on :
Oh, Ic... Tell him. Get him some help.
(((((((Icarus))))))))
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
Even if he doesn't want it?
(Interesting . . . family members who don't want help seems to be a reccurring motif in my life . . .)
Posted by David Bowles (Member # 1021) on :
Gosh, that's a hard one, bro. My wife smokes, too, though she's not got any physical problems associated with her smoking, and she is a relatively infrequent addict (on the order of four or so cigarettes a day). She has to smoke out of doors, even in the cold, and she has made many concessions to the children's health. But in the end, even if she might be killing herself or endangering herself, I cannot force her to go further and stop smoking (she did stop during each of her pregnancies and while breastfeeding, a total of 55 months... nearly five years spread over 12... I still don't get why she can't continue afterwards). In fact, making an issue of it puts her on the defensive and turns out to be rather counterproductive.
It is just a sucky situation.
Posted by Ralphie (Member # 1565) on :
Knowing me, I'd probably communicate exactly how I felt - that I love him, I want to keep him around as long as I can, and the idea that he would be hurrying himself to his death shatters my heart - and then let him do his thang.
But I would be very, very assertive with how I felt. Even if he doesn't quit smoking again, at least he knows that you 1) don't approve; and 2) don't wish the expediency of his death.
I'm sorry, Icarus. Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
(((Icky)))
You can try talking to your father and telling him your concerns, at least, I guess. Smoking is a tough addiction, very hard to quit.
What a difficult situation for you.
**Ela**
Posted by celia60 (Member # 2039) on :
(((Icky)))
Posted by Boon (Member # 4646) on :
(((Ic)))
Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
I've already lost one aunt who chain-smoked. Another aunt who quit years ago now has a deadly form of lung cancer. If your dad has had congestive heart failure and quadruple bypass, he's really pushing his luck smoking.
Nagging someone about an addiction sucks, but being almost silent is not the best course. Try a little brutal realism. Download some anti-smoking literature that details how dangerous it is to smoke with a serious heart condition. Ask him to read it. He probably won't, but you'll have tried. Also, even if you can't get him to quit, encourage him to cut back cigarettes as much as he can. That is better than nothing. You could also try to get his doctor involved.
My dad has diabetes and other health problems. He is now 69 and keeps talking about living another 20 years. I tell him he'll never make it unless he exercises more. He has lost a lot of weight since he was diagnosed with diabetes, and me and my sister praise him for that.
In the end it's your dad's life. I think it's gone beyond an addiction into a minor death wish when someone with his heart problems smokes, but what can you do? Don't beat yourself up about it.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
((((((((((Icky))))))))))
Posted by Zotto! (Member # 4689) on :
Oh jeez. What Ralphie said.
I'm so sorry, Ic.
(((Icarus))) Posted by Hobbes (Member # 433) on :
(((((((((((((((((((((Icarus)))))))))))))))))))))
Hobbes Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
I'm with Ralphie on this one. Tell him exactly how you feel about it. Tell him what you've told us. Be emphatic. Then you've really got to let him decide what to do.
It sounds as though he tends to take up smoking when depressing, stressful things happen in his life. Would he be open to trying an antidepressant, or talking to a therapist (or priest, or whatever flavor of councilor he prefers), or both?
Posted by Chris Bridges (Member # 1138) on :
Definitely tell him. Try to avoid the "this is all your fault" tone. I've no doubt you can express your love and affection for him and still get the point across.
And it still may not help. Both my parents smoked heavily. Mom finally quit after our first son was born asthmatic and we refused to let him visit if just being inside their house sent him into spasms she started again later, and then went through a long cycle of quitting and relapsing. Dad tried, off and on, but not terribly hard. About ten years before he died his doctor finally told him he might as well drink and smoke all he wanted since there was no way to reverse the damage that had been done and trying to quit was probably doing his system more harm at that point. The last two years of his life Dad was on oxygen and in and out of the hospital every other month, and yet when the doctor sent him from his office to the hospital the last time (they were on the same street) Dad made Mom pull over for a minute so he could burn one since they wouldn't let him once he was admitted.
I do not, do not, do not understand smokers. While I can cut my parents some slack since they grew up when smoking was nearly mandatory (North Carolina, in the 30's-50's), the harmful effects have been well-known for over 30 years now. Aren't there more pleasant, cheaper ways to kill yourself?
Posted by Bob_Scopatz (Member # 1227) on :
Icarus,
He sure doesn't seem very frail!!! Or he doesn't act that way when I'm around.
The problem here is that while you may want him around for a long time, he may not really want to be around for a long time. And I know how awful that sounds, but I suspect there's more to this than a love of nicotine. I mean, if he was able to quit cold turkey and stay off cigs for awhile, his reasons for going back to the habit aren't because of an addiction.
He's had a rough few months lately and he sure has legitimate reason to be depressed. But that doesn't mean he won't snap out of it.
One thing you could try with him is the non-health consequences of his smoking:
1) The temporary stimulant effect could actually exacerbate depression.
2) You are kind of upset with him that your daughters clothes smell like they were hung up in a pool hall.
3) He's wasting time that could be spent with the family but instead is spent standing off alone somewhere so he can get a fix.
4) Only young, glamorous, in shape people like me look actually GOOD smoking. And even I quit the habit!!!
<if that last one doesn't convince him, I don't know what will!>
5) You don't want him to use up your inheritance by spending so much money on cigarettes. At the very least, could he switch to generic brands?
Then, if you want to really get to him on the health stuff...
I read an article recently that said that some of the problems associated with smoking AREN'T cummulative. That basically the NEXT cigarette you smoke could be the one that triggers a cancerous growth. Now that's a scary thought. That you've actually lucked out so far, but the one you just stuck in your mouth could be the one that eventually kills you.
Even really smart scientist types get scared about purposefully injecting a random element into their lives. Seems to me.
(Purposeful randomness -- what a concept!!!)
(((Icarus)))
Your dad's a neat person. I hope he decides to stick around and be a part of all our lives for awhile longer.
Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
Icky, I agree with Bob, in that your dad might not want to be around for a long time. Your dad has had some major life stressors. He's lost his job (identity,) his wife, his health. The last time the doctors were so worried about his ability to make it through surgery, they opted for their second choice of things to do.
He might just be depressed and stressed. And what do you do when you're stressed and depressed? You smoke, of course.
Rather than nagging him about smoking, why don't you ask to go with to a doctor to see if he's clinically depressed. Zyban would help the depression and the smoking. There are other anti-depressants also. Maybe if he weren't depressed, he'd be more willing to quit smoking again. Till then, you talking to him about it will only piss him off, or depress him more for letting you down (depending on his personality.)
Of course, he might not be depressed. I suppose he could just be a stubborn old jack ass, but I thought I'd mention the possibility.
Posted by saxon75 (Member # 4589) on :
I'm so sorry, man. Smoking killed my grandfather; I sat with him in the hospital just a few hours before he died. I don't know what advice I could give you, but I feel for you.
(((((Joe)))))
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
Thanks, y'all. He's not real in touch with his emotions, nor is he much of a believer in psycho-anything. Nor is he religious. I'll still see if he is open to that kind of approach though. Right now, though, he is in his window of time between the expiration of COBRA and the beginning of Medicare benefits, so he is, on top of everything else, temporarily uninsured. (He has to be unemployed for like 2 years before he can have Medicare. ) So this will limit his ability to seek out counseling right now. But thanks anyway for the advice on how to deal with it. I will definitely keep everything everyone's said here on my mind when I do confront him about it.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
Icarus, I don't think that you should view this as some sort of suicide attempt. Nicotine is extremely addictive. It is fat soluable and so it can take years after you stop smoking before the cravings completely go away. It is not the same for everyone. This is why it is so common for people to stop smoking, get past the initial painful withdrawl, but then 6 months or 3 year later, they start smoking again. Physically, they have been in low level withdrawl the whole time. As soon as something really stressful happens in their lives, it gets to be too much to handle both the withdrawl and life. The length of withdrawl appears to be a function of your percent body fat, the thickness of the myalin sheaths on your nevers and a variety of physiolocial factors. But the point is, that difficulties with giving up smoking do not necessarily reflect some character flaw or lack of self control. There are real physiological reasons why some people have a much harder time quitting than others. It is not simply a matter of will power.
I think it would be a good idea to tell your Dad how much you love him and how much you are worried about his smoking, but don't be too harsh on him. Nicotine is one of the most addictive substances thats ever been studied.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Oh, and Ic, I don't know what other things are going on with you that have made you cranky (I actually hadn't noticed your being all that cranky, to tell you the truth), but ((Icarus)).
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
((((Icky))))
Yeah, my family is full of addicts. It makes no difference at all when you bug them about it. All you can do is set an example and then hush. The truth is that the addiction matters to them more than their lives or their family. In the end it is a choice and that's what they choose. Be glad he isn't an alcoholic or crack addict.
We are given a certain amount of time with them, and then they're gone.
It is terrible to be enslaved like that, and wonderful to be free. I, too, was once a nicotine addict, long ago. I still have occasional dreams that I've started smoking again, and I always feel awful about it. The very idea that I ever smoked is totally repulsive to me.
Posted by Willy Shmily Tiger (Member # 5647) on :
(((((((((((((Icarus)))))))))))))
Hobbes Posted by Morbo (Member # 5309) on :
I read an article recently that said that some of the problems associated with smoking AREN'T cummulative. That basically the NEXT cigarette you smoke could be the one that triggers a cancerous growth.--Bob
This is what I was referring to when I said cutting back cigs is better than nothing. It does have some health benefits if he limits them as much as possible.
Rabbit's post was informative, I didn't know that.
Posted by Danzig (Member # 4704) on :
Well, if he does not have health insurance, this might not work, but has he tried Wellbutrin? Wellbutrin is an antidepressant, but the exact same chemical is also sold as under a different name as an aid to quit smoking. If the smoke when depressed thing is the case, it might work.
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[Cry]](graemlins/cry.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
) So this will limit his ability to seek out counseling right now. But thanks anyway for the advice on how to deal with it. I will definitely keep everything everyone's said here on my mind when I do confront him about it.
![[Group Hug]](graemlins/grouphug.gif)
(((((((((((((Icarus)))))))))))))