I have been hit up by kids and/or their parents many, many times in the past for various fundraisers - candy, gift wrap, etc. They're always for some extracurricular activity like sports, ROTC, band. I usually try to buy something because I know it's generally for a good cause and I know what it's like since I had to do it.
Yesterday, I saw a new one. A woman I work with brought in candy her daughter was selling for school. I asked what club, team, etc. the money was for.
The school! It wasn't for any club or any afterschool trip. It was for the school itself. If the daughter did not sell the $80 of candy, the parents were expected to fork over the money. How can they do that? Is that even legal?
I know budgets are hard in Florida schools, but shouldn't kids be able to go to school and not be forced into sales.
Posted by dkw (Member # 3264) on :
My neighbor’s daughter starts eighth grade this week. She has $107 worth of required fees (NOT for extra-curriculars). In a public school. I don’t remember the list, but they included textbook rental and gym fee. The only “fee” I remember from elementary/jr high was that everyone had to bring one large box of Kleenex to share.
Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
Zan, you must have missed my rants about this subject last year. Our old school district had had 3 fundraisers before the second week of school ended! They spent more time raising money than teaching the kids. But, they had new carpet.
dkw, my kids old school had fees of $133 for the junior high school kids, plus $100 for the first activity they wanted to be in (football, band, cheerleading) and $75 for each additional one.
My son just started school in our new school district. I didn't have to pay a dime. And there hasn't been a single fundraiser, yet. Posted by Jacare Sorridente (Member # 1906) on :
Actually this sounds kind of standard. In Utah there were textbook rental fees, locker fees, gym fees etc. So much for free education.
[ August 26, 2003, 02:57 PM: Message edited by: Jacare Sorridente ]
Posted by littlemissattitude (Member # 4514) on :
quote:In a public school. I don’t remember the list, but they included textbook rental and gym fee.
Excuse me? Textbook rental? Whatever happened to a free public education in this country? I have never heard of such a thing. It's bad enough here in California that some schools make their students raise thousands of dollars because the school won't fork over for "extras" like a music program.
Not that I think music should be considered an "extra", but what are the kids who can't afford the "textbook rental" fee supposed to do? You can't do your required reading or your homework if you don't have a textbook. This just bears out my suspicion that there are powers that be in this country that want to go back to the time when an education was only for the rich.
And, yes, I'm feeling especially cynical today.
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
In our school district textbook rental gets waived if you're under a certain income level.
Posted by Dan_raven (Member # 3383) on :
This is a poem I wrote 20 years ago, as I was graduating High School:
Free Education is quite a joke Just buying from me, my parents went broke. I sold so much stuff, for bad and for good More than any school tax ever hopefully could.
For Beta and Debate, I helped support By buying and selling and things of that sort. Chocolate and calendars, just like a store Soda's and post cards and Chocolate some more.
I've sold way to much, this I can say For our brand new report cards bring us dismay In the spot where once sat my long fought for grade Was how much I sold and how much I made.
Posted by zgator (Member # 3833) on :
I don't remember ever having to pay for anything other than gym clothes and a lock for my locker from junior high up through high school.
I don't know. Every year I watch my sister spend hundreds of her own money for her kindergarten class because the school can't even provide simple things like construction paper, crayons, etc. Usually, a few of the parents will purchase a few things that the whole class will be able to use. Maybe this is a way to make sure everybody pulls their share since the government obviously isn't going to.
Somebody tell me again why we're getting tax cuts when our schools are charging textbook rental fees.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
We're not allowed to charge for books or any other sort of fee in Osceola County. On the other hand, I also don't have any books to send home with any students this year, and I don't even have a complete classroom set for Algebra II.
When I worked in the middle school, we had a "supply list" that included a box of tissues from each student and a ream of paper from each student, among other things. The tissues and the paper formed our supply for the year. This year I had to buy kindergarten supplies for my kids, and their supply list seemed much more abusive than ours was in middle school. Tissues, paper, Expo markers, four boxes of crayons, eight glue sticks, heaps of Crayola markers, dozens of pencils, a box of baby wipes, etc. There is no consequence for not buying all the supplies, though, because the list is unenforceable.
I have mixed feelings about that. I could see that I was paying for supplies for the teachers and not for my kids--supplies which nobody donates to me, by the way. And yet, I want the best possible education for my kids, and so it behooves me to see to it that their classrooms are well-supplied, no? Of course, if this crappy county and this crappy state would spend a little more on education, maybe they wouldn't have to resort to cheap gimmicks like this to get what they need.
Of course, I'm on the same pay scale as the elementary and middle school teachers, and I can't have a similar supply list because I'm just one out of seven or eight teachers that my kids have. I quite literally spend many hundreds of dollars out of pocket every year buying my own supplies and educational tools. And of course, I work in one of the lowest paying counties in one of the lowest paying states . . . after ten years I still make 10-15% less than the median national income for a teacher in the US. But I'm not bitter or anything. Posted by BelladonnaOrchid (Member # 188) on :
Icarus,
How irritating! Here in Oklahoma City, instead of charging students, they lay off teachers to fight the budget crunch.
However, I don't see that this method is too effective either, since now there are some 35-40 kids per class, last I heard.
But I do NOT think that the 'fix-it' method is laying the costs of teaching material on the teacher. That's like saying, okay, you have a job, but you have to pay to get paid. Grr...
[ August 27, 2003, 12:26 AM: Message edited by: BelladonnaOrchid ]
Posted by Maccabeus (Member # 3051) on :
Well...someone has to pay for everything, including schools, "free" or not. And nobody wants their taxes raised, so what is the government to do?
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
Raise taxes, because whether or not people like it, this nation made a committment to giving each child a free and adequate education, and it's not quite living up to it.
Of course, if you're a politician, that won't get you reelected . . . .
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
I would be quite happy to have the taxes raised if it meant that schools would get the money, and not one of the worthless projects that our mayor keeps on starting in order to get votes.
Posted by James Tiberius Kirk (Member # 2832) on :
That's just wrong...
In montgomery county public we have a $3 computer use fee, and an extracurricular fee, but other than that
Posted by zgator (Member # 3833) on :
I was wondering what most teachers in Florida would rather have if they had a choice - well supplied classrooms or smaller class sizes.
In Florida, we just put an amendment on the state constitution setting max. class sizes which will be phased in over the next 10 years.
Icarus, you said that you're not allowed to mandate a list for the class. Is that a county or state rule or a local high school rule? If it is a county rule, are things easier for you than other teachers in Osceola Co. because of where you teach? I would think that parents in an area like Celebration would be more likely to pitch in and help.
Posted by Boon (Member # 4646) on :
Not to get off subject or anything, but...
BelladonnaOrchid:
quote: Here in Oklahoma City
Holy Crap!!!
Another Okie! I don't believe it! I thought I was the only one out here in the stix.
I'm not alone!
Posted by Ela (Member # 1365) on :
Zan: We live in Florida. Lots of senior citizens, who consistently vote against tax increases that would help with educational expenses.
**Ela**
Posted by PSI Teleport (Member # 5545) on :
quote: If the daughter did not sell the $80 of candy, the parents were expected to fork over the money. How can they do that? Is that even legal?
It hasn't been long since I was in school, and I don't think these people HAD to take the candy. The little girl probably told the teacher she wanted ten boxes (because it takes ten boxes to get the DVD player) and now the mom is forced to sell it or pay for it. But I know they can't force the kids to participate.
Unfortunately they make it almost impossible for the kid to say no (with a promise of a trip to Wally World), and they don't let the parents in on the decision making. So the parents are left to clean up the mess. And you can't really issue out my standard disciplinary action of "making the kid pay for it", because they were duped, too. But if this was the case, I would take that candy back and refuse to pay for it myself, and ask them where their freakin' contract is.
So far I've never had to pay any fees (neither did my parents) but I feel really bad for the people who do. But honestly, you know there are people who "can't afford it" (which of us can?) and they probably get to enroll their kids anyway.
Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
Icky, on top of the fees (which included a hefty book rental fee, yet I never once saw an actual book) we also had the "school supplies" list. Usually it included a couple of bottles of glue, 2 sets of markers, colored pencils, pencils, pens, scissors, three ring binder with dividers, spiral notebooks, a few things of loose leaf paper, big fat erasers, a ruler, a backpack, a pencil box, and several boxes of kleenex. Everything had to have their names on it and we got back unused junk at the end of the year. (Never any kleenex or paper, but half-broken crayons, scissors, ruler, dried out markers and a quarter of a bottle of glue. )
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
Zan,
Given that choice, I would rather have the smaller class sizes. Right now we have both problems: we are overcrowded and undersupplied. I am already in the habit of supplementing our supplies at my expense, but there is nothing I am capable of doing to solve the class-size issue. Reducing the class sizes, on the other hand, actually alleviates both problems, because then I have to buy less supplies.
I don't know if it's a county rule or a state rule, but it's not just our school. We can't require our kids to bring in supplies, nor can we charge lab fees or anything like that. We do charge for lunch, but we have provisions for free or reduced lunch for impoverished kids.
The K-8 school is also selling PE uniforms, but, at least so far, they are allowing parents to purchase similarly colored clothes elsewhere. If they change that policy we may have a fight, because the PE uniforms simply aren't made small enough to fit my girls. If someone wanted to fight it, I doubt they can even legally enforce wearing certain colors, as long as athletic clothes of some sort are worn, because what if you are too poor to run out and buy new shorts and T-shirts just so that they match the school's decor? The PE thing actually ticks me off a little bit, because in kindergarten, they wear the PE clothes the whole day on days when they have PE, and my daughters don't have PE the same day. So we have all these cute little matching outfits we've bought over the years, and the girls can never both wear them to school! Essentially, half of their wardrobe now needs to be green or gold shorts and T-shirts, and I'm also not thrilled about having had to run out and buy these new clothes, when they have plenty of clothes that fit, and clothing two kids ain't cheap. But that's just my peeve.
What the middle and elementary teachers do is they don't point out that they can't make you bring in stuff, and a lot of people bring it in automatically. But there are plenty of people who know it's not required and blow off the supply list. This of course angers the people who do bring stuff in, because they feel like the supply list is larger to compensate for the inevitable nonparticipants. In other words, you as a parent are supplying your own kids and some other kids whose parents couldn't or wouldn't buy suplies for them.
Yes, Celebration parents are generally more willing to pitch in to help, with donations of money or supplies or time, than is generally considered the norm. This is a fantastic thing. However, keep in mind that I no longer work at the old K-12 school, which is now a K-8 school. I work at the eponymous high school (::tries to Googleproof sentence: , which is a school of 2000, only a quarter of whom are from Celebration. The other students come from Poinciana and unincorporated areas of the county, so we don't have the luxury of relying on an affluent set of parents.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
Right Kayla. At least then you know you are buying supplies for your own kid, and not for all the other kids as well.
-o-
And don't get me started on the fact that the kindergarten is asking us to provide snacks for our child's class one day per month (per child). Posted by Chade Fallstar (Member # 5581) on :
Our school district does the same thing. Each family has to pay around 140 bucks each year. They offer the fundraisers and if you don't raise enough you give them a check.
Posted by Kayla (Member # 2403) on :
We pay the 140 and are pressured into fundraisers. I really think having kids sell crap for prizes ought to be illegal.
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
"Lots of senior citizens, who consistently vote against tax increases that would help..." Which by itself is good reason to raise inheritance taxes to 100%.
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
How would that hurt senior citizens? Think about it . . .
Posted by aspectre (Member # 2222) on :
It doesn't. Where would you get the idea that I would wish seniors harm??? However, it does make the better off amongst them (otherwise thay would have nothing to "leave for the kids") pay back some of the governmental funds (social security, medicare, etc) that they used for taking cruises, gambling, etc when they should have used their own money instead of soaking the working taxpayer.
[ August 27, 2003, 12:50 PM: Message edited by: aspectre ]
Posted by littlemissattitude (Member # 4514) on :
quote:The K-8 school is also selling PE uniforms...
This is another new one on me. I've never heard of elementary schools (that's K-6 here in California) even wearing PE clothes. I mean, sheesh, we never got that sweaty during P.E. in those grades. In fact, all through my elementary school years, girls were required to wear dresses to school (yes, I grew up in the dark ages), and it never even occurred to anyone that girls couldn't play kick-ball or softball or volleyball or whatever in dresses.
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It wasn't for any club or any afterschool trip. It was for the school itself. If the daughter did not sell the $80 of candy, the parents were expected to fork over the money. How can they do that? Is that even legal?![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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I'm not alone!
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