On Monday I started an Aikido class. It's going to be a great experience, but right now my body is still getting used to it.
I did an exercise where I grappled with someone while kneeling, with the tops of my feet against the mat. After about 40 repitions of this exercise, I got up and realized that the tops of my feet were skinned and oozing a mixture of blood and clear fluid. I went home (putting on my birks was not fun, I can assure you, as the front most straps went directly across my wounds and washed them out well, but didn't bandage them, thinking that it would be better to let them scab over. They hurt on Tuesday, but not horribly. Unfortunately, when I took off my socks Tues. night, it ripped the scabs off. Wed. morning I put on some of those clear 2nd skin type bandages, but when I took my socks off later that day, I discovered that with a skin like covering over the wounds, they'd become blisters.
Now, I could just take off the bandaids, effectively lancing the artificial blisters, but is this a good idea, or should I leave them in place? I can never remember what you're supposed to do with blisters.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Oh, man, Noemon, I'll have to think. (*ouch) Usually keeping blisters intact is the best thing, since that way they stay sterile and protect the underlying healing skin. Probably best to do so even if they are secondary to other trauma. However, if blisters must be popped (i.e., you're sure that given the location, they can't be preserved), then it's best to clean the surface and puncture with a sterile needle (keeping them as intact as possible), then bandage.
I'll look it up for you.
Maybe Alucard or Tullaan have special recommendations?
Posted by Sho'nuff (Member # 3214) on :
No advice. But i took Aikido for a little over a year and it was a great experience. I'd love to get back into it sometime soon.
Congratulations.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
CT, since the skin of the blisters is in this case artificial, couldn't I just pull the bandage off, rather than lancing it?
Storm--I'm right in thinking that Sh'nuff is Storm Saxon, right?--Yeah, Aikido is great, isn't it? I took it for about a year back in '93-'94. I never really got very far with it, as I had to drive a half hour to get to the dojo, and often had to do homework instead of going. I ended up quitting after I got hurt; my stance was a little too wide, and when I threw a guy he came down on my little toe, snapping it.
That's definitely an incentive to keep my stance tight this time around.
Posted by zgator (Member # 3833) on :
You could try that 2nd skin spray on stuff. It's worked well for me in the past.
Posted by Sho'nuff (Member # 3214) on :
Strider actually.
I had taken Tai Kwan Do for some years when i was younger, and while i enjoyed it, it didn't really teach me anything. it was all repitition and memorization with no practical application.
Aikido, while maybe not the most thorough work out in the "getting in great shape" sense of the word, is just a great art form. Makes you more relaxed, flexible, centered...able to deal with any situation as it comes along.
And the practical applications of it are so easily seen. And make so much sense. Why waste your own energy when you can use your opponents energy/force against him/her.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Well, for right now these bandages are holding just fine, and there's no sign of infection or anything under them, so it looks like I did a good job cleaning them out (clear bandages are pretty cool). I'm a little concerned about what'll happen when I go back to the dojo though; there seems to be a fair amount of activity that involves the top of your feet being in contact with the mat.
Before reading CT's advice, I was considering removing one of the bandages and just observing the differences in the way they healed. I guess I'll leave them on for now though.
Posted by Sho'nuff (Member # 3214) on :
why move away from the blow when you can move directly into it, still avoiding it and being able to counter with greater power?
why make sshort choppy punches and kicks, when you can have greater power with fluid movements, instead of being static. losing all power when your punch reaches the end of the length your arm can travel...
i love the idea of constant mobility, and the fluidity of it all.
[ August 14, 2003, 11:22 AM: Message edited by: Sho'nuff ]
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Oh, Strider, okay. Hi Strider! I have a difficult time keeping everybody's secondary names straight.
That's interesting about Tai Kwan Do not having practical application. I had no idea. Am I right in thinking that it was developed to give Korean foot soldiers a better chance against Japanese cavalry?
quote:Aikido, while maybe not the most thorough work out in the "getting in great shape" sense of the word, is just a great art form. Makes you more relaxed, flexible, centered...able to deal with any situation as it comes along.
Yeah, it's for those reasons that I'm taking it again. That, and the fact that I'm hoping that by doing this, I can help myself overcome the tendency that I have toward inactivity. I feel so frustrated with coming up with great ideas, and then never pursuing them.
quote:And the practical applications of it are so easily seen. And make so much sense.
Sure, as long as you can get ther person attacking you to grab your wrist.
Seriously, though, while I've never had occasion to use the physical form of Aikido out of the dojo, I've been using the techniques in my interactions with people for almost a decade, and it's been really helpful.
Posted by Sho'nuff (Member # 3214) on :
quote:That's interesting about Tai Kwan Do not having practical application.
not that it doesn't have any pratical application. just that it's so centered on learning moves. on learning patterns. granted i was younger, but i really didn't learn much at all and when i left the dojo i was a red belt with 3 black stripes.
it was learn this punch, learn this kick, learn this movement. memorize this pattern. ok, now spar. Aikido is so much more, ok if someone is coming at you like this, here are the things you can do. mix and match as you please. is the person coming from the right? left? straight on. which arm is he using? does he have a weapon...etc.
quote:Sure, as long as you can get ther person attacking you to grab your wrist.
lol, not exactly valid. funny though. you don't want them to grab your wrist, you just want their arm sticking out so you can grab theirs. Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:not that it doesn't have any pratical application. just that it's so centered on learning moves
Oh, okay, I see what you mean. I didn't realize the degree to which other martial arts weren't like Aikido in that respect.
You know, I have to say that the one thing that I don't care for with Aikido (and I've heard that this is the case with other martial arts as well, but I don't know it first hand) is the exclusive use of Japanese names for various moves. To me it would be much more useful if I had English terms for the various moves, since I would actually understand what they meant, instead of just having to learn to associate a sequence of sounds with a move.
I would just learn Japanese, but I don't really have the time right now (gearing up to start working on Spanish again).
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
Hope the blisters are okay. I took Aikido for a while too and it was great! I dropped out for logistical reasons and because the rolls always made me horribly motion sick for the whole rest of the class. If I could study one on one and skip the rolls until maybe doing some at the very end of the class I could probably continue.
I got a lesson in blister care from Black Fox not long ago. Infantrymen are the wizards of blister care! He told me what to do and it really worked great. Don't pop them. Even if they pop on their own, leave the skin that covers them. Slather them in Neosporin morning and night, and keep a bandaid covering them until they get well. They heal much faster that way than if left alone in the open air.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Thanks for the advice ak! I guess I'll be leaving the bandages on then, although I'm feeling really tempted to play with them, and have to generally stop myself from poking at the blisters.
I won't bother with the neosporin though, since it couldn't penetrate the rubber "skin" of the blisters anyway.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
Now I'm not a doc and CT is, but I would be worried about infection under the bandaids. With a real blister that hasn't popped this isn't as much of an issue because no dirt could get in in the first place. In this case I would have assumed that the "blisters" were the result of an infection and would most definitely take the bandages off and clean them out with an alcohol or hyrdogen peroxide solution. On the other hand if you are sure nothing is in there and not worried about infection maybe leave them on. I am also definitely of the school where I'd pull one off to see and then decide what to do with the other one.
CT am I way off base here?
AJ
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
The neosporin really does help the healing a lot. Not sure why exactly, but it does. I've done tests with similar wounds, with and without neosporin and bandaids and the combination works far faster than either alone or no treatment at all besides washing.
Neosporin will absorb through the real skin of a blister to get underneath. I guess you're right that it wouldn't penetrate the rubber skin stuff you have on it. I think I might remove that and slather on neosporin, then cover back up twice a day.
Posted by Storm Saxon (Member # 3101) on :
Correct me if I am wrong, but the problem with Aikido is that once someone does manage to actually grapple with you and get you to the ground, you're toast. Then again, that's a problem that a lot of styles would seem to have. *shrug*
Posted by sarcasticmuppet (Member # 5035) on :
I thought if he took off the rubber skin, it would tear the blisters open. That's what he meant by "effectively lancing the artificial blisters". Ewww Ewww Ewww.
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
CT would probably know for sure. I know leaving the real skin on is good, but impermeable artificial skin I would think would be best to change regularly so you could clean and apply medicine to the wound. That's what I was thinking.
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
same here, I got the impression that when CT read it the first time she thought they were real blisters not "artificial" ones.
AJ
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Noemon, I'm sure that if you asked a dozen physicians, you'd get a dozen answers. But I've been asking around and puzzling through it the best I can, and here's the summary:
1. There's a great article on Friction Blisters at emedicine, and it reviews the current literature (about 15 or so references at the end). That's worth a read.
2. Although that article recommends lancing blisters with a needle under sterile conditions, and although AJ raises excellent concerns about infection, at this point I would leave the second-skin intact. Here's why:
a. The lancing under sterile conditions is done to preserve as much of the fragile covering to the underlying area as possible. As fragile as the blister top is, it is a much better barrier than the open wound underneath (which really is comparable to a burn) -- but if this is in an area of continued friction under pressure (e.g., sole of foot and you have to walk on it), it will be too fragile to withstand being shredded. An intact covering with fluid buffer is best, an intact covering with no fluid buffer is next best, and a non-intact covering is the most damaging, as it exposes that burn-type area.
Given that you have artificially reinforced that covering, I'd try to keep it intact while that underlying tissue heals. Unlike a single layer or two of friable epidermis, your patented Noemonal SuperSkin should hold quite well.
However, watch for the four cardinal signs of infection: tumor (swelling), calor (heat), rubor (redness), and dolor (pain). Any increase in heat, swelling, pain, or redness -- especially red streaks leading back to the heart, suggestive of lymphangitis -- should be taken seriously. If you get a fever, get yourself checked out by a professional.
3. ak and I are on the same page about neosporin in general. It's great, especially for small cuts, and it does seem to aid healing and prevent infection. But it is an occlusive dressing, since it is oil-based, and this is essentially a burn area (large open debrided area). Burns don't do as well under occlusion. I found this out the hard way when I tried to treat extensive friction rubs on the back of one of my patients with topical occlusive antibiotic ointment -- it made it worse, as it trapped moisture and thus contributed to the friability of the area and a superimposed yeast infection. Lesson learned, for me.
That's when I found out about Silvadene cream, which is a white water-based emulsion of silver sulfadiazene that is both less occlusive and has antifungal properties (unlike antibacterial ointments). I used this now for prevention of infections in open debrided wounds like burns or opened blisters, since it is treatment of choice at burn centers.
I think silvadene is prescription-only. Should you develop signs of infection or if your SuperSkin should shred off (try to say that 10 times fast), I'd check with a medical professional and ask about silvadene. Otherwise, maybe we can all cross our fingers and hope you can keep your ow-ies clean and dry, and that they heal nicely on their own.
Good luck! Let us know how it goes.
[ August 15, 2003, 10:43 AM: Message edited by: ClaudiaTherese ]
Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
That's very cool that you are taking Aikido. I am a big fan of it.
I am a little surprised that your sensai would have had you kneeling with the tops of your feet on the mat though. When I was taught hanmi handachi and segura waza techniques we often had our feet curled up under our haunches (bottom of the toes on the mat, heels up against your butt) - especially when you were moving (you can't really move using the tops of your feet). Tops of the feet on the mat work fine for doing kokyo ho, but not well for doing sankyo nage hanmi handachi...
Storm - Aikido is useful even when on the ground. My sensai often practices with us and deliberately gets us pinned (since he knows how we will move before we do it, he has an advantage) just to see how well we can do from that position. We don't learn pressure points for nothing....
[ August 15, 2003, 10:50 AM: Message edited by: ludosti ]
Posted by BannaOj (Member # 3206) on :
ok CT that makes a lot of sense (of course it should since you are the doc)
So if I'm understanding you corectly clear drainage from a friction burn in and of itself should not be viewed as it "getting infected."
Incidentally we have a friend who is a blackbelt+ in jujitsu, who is teaching a group the basics at our house, since we have the most room for the mats. I haven't been participating yet due to recovering from mono. But even watching is pretty awesome. In jujitsu there seem to be 2 or 3 ways to get the job done no matter what the situation. Of course some techniques are more difficult than others and no one has even made it to yellow yet, but it has been fascinating.
AJ
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
ludosti--actually, the sensai wasn't working directly with me at that point; he was having me work with all of the advanced students in the dojo, one at a time, to get to know them, and didn't supervise this particular exercise after he assigned it. The guy who I was working with was pretty advanced, and I expect that the sensai just assumed that the guy could handle it. In any case, it's entirely possible that I was doing it wrong, and the guy working with me didn't notice it.
I didn't go on Wed. because of a combination of feeling sick and the tops of my feet hurting. I'd like to go tonight, but I was worried about the bandages getting ripped off; I guess I could just talk to the sensai about it; that's probably better than missing again.
Anyway, about the blisters--so far I've been able to resist the urge to experiment on myself, so both blisters are still intact. Both of them have gotten larger, and one of them is almost too large to be contained by the bandage. Neither of them hurt (any more than a blister usually does), but both of them itch, which I assume is a good thing. There has been no increase in either heat or redness--in fact, there's no redness at all, at least that I can see through the semitransparent bandage.
quote:Given that you have artificially reinforced that covering, I'd try to keep it intact while that underlying tissue heals.
See, that's the weird thing--there was no covering to artifically reinforce. There was no actual skin over the wound at all. It's just a layer of plastic, a layer of fluid, and then the surface of the wound.
When I left the dojo on Monday, the skin in the areas in question had been completely rubbed away, and the bloody sores were just open to the air. They crusted/scabbed over, but the scabs pulled off when I took off my socks Tuesday night. Wednesday morning, after enduring the pain of the water from my shower melting the fragile scab type crust that had formed overnight, I decided to put on my nifty 2nd skin style bandages (I must admit that I've been kind of wanting to have a good reason to use them since I bought them. This definitely fit the bill). When I took off my socks Wed. after work, I discovered that the blisters had developed.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Yeah, AJ, the clear fluid is normal leakage of non-cellular components of blood (i.e., "serous"). When it becomes thick, yellowish and pus-like (i.e., "purulent"), infection becomes a concern. However, most of pus is shed bits of skin cells and dead white blood cells, so yellow or white can still be non-bacterial (i.e., "sterile").
Inflammation is a normal response of tissue to damage, and it's a sign that the body has a healthy immune response. This is why people with inadequate immune systems (e.g., people with AIDS or the debilitated elderly) may not be able to mount a fever when they are seriously infected. (So, for example, even if an elderly person in a nursing home has no fever, you should still suspect pneumonia if they become unusually confused and disoriented. It may be the first and only symptom they have.)
Any significant local irritation will cause release of factors which recruit white blood cells to the area. They release little tiny packets of highly toxic materials (like bleach and hydrochloric acid) that will kill bacteria in the area, but also cause further inflammation and further recruitment of white blood cells. So you're bound to have some swelling, redness, etc, even if it's hardly noticable. And the damaged capillaries will leak out the clear/straw-colored material that the blood cells float in.
But increasing or additional heat/redness/swelling/pain, especially if there is leakage of yellowish-white fluid, and definitely if there is a foul odor, should be evaluated for infection.
Actually, odor is one of the most sensitive tools for distinguishing infection, at least in the right noses. Dogs are particularly good at this. I'm not a dog, but I've learned to identify by smell some of the types of bacteria that cause infection.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
quote:I'm not a dog ...
... but I ain't no beauty queen, neither.
Noemon, I really wish I could see your feet for myself. I'm not sure what to recommend, other than keeping a close watch (and sniff) for infection.
If that one serous area has spread almost to the edges of the second skin, then it will probably soon start leaking out one of the sides on its own. At that point I'd do exactly what ak said and remove it to observe the healing area, as it would be certain to roll up and off soon.
And don't forget to document all the details here. This -- although a real bummer for you, and I'm very sorry that you have to deal with the pain and discomfort -- is admittedly fascinating. (Would you consider posting pictures? Or would that (understandably) just be too creepy for you?)
[ August 15, 2003, 12:05 PM: Message edited by: ClaudiaTherese ]
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
CT, you just know the most fascinating stuff. I know it's your job to know all of this, but wow!
Some friends of mine (well, positive acquaintances, anyway) are Chinese medicine practicioners, and they actually do a whole lot of their diagnostic work through smell. It's pretty interesting.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Noemon, you can use benedryl to help reduce the itching. Also camp out in front of an air conditioner, and keep them cool & dry. You might find that gentle and brief application of an ice cube to the area outside the bandage might ease the itch too, but be careful not to get the second skin wet or to damage the surrounding skin with excessive cold.
(and don't operate heavy machinery on benadryl!)
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
I'd gladly post pictures, but after a recent move my scanner is still at the bottom of a box somewhere in a huge pile of boxes, and unfortunately even if I did dig it out I wouldn't really have any place to put it at the moment (need to build a desk to fit the spot where I want the computer). If you're interested, though, I'd be happy to post about it in as much detail as you'd like.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Thanks, Noemon! I absolutely love learning more in my field. It's the greatest job -- both very cool sciency stuff and the whole "ringside seat on humanity" aspect. No day is ever boring, and no day at work is without rewards.
We should be paying more attention to the older arts of medicine. Luckily, there are some ongoing systematic studies.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Here's the type of bandage that I'm using, in case you're interested CT.
I should try to avoid getting the bandage wet? I'm afraid I've been showering while wearing it for the last couple of days with no problem.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Ohhhhhh ... this is awesome.
Okay, this looks like it's designed to accomodate fluids and form a seal (using cellulose on the inner surface? I have absolutley no idea!) I was expecting that it would be the sort of adhesive bandage which could be loosened with water.
Hey, Noemon, it looks like it is designed to make its own blister roofing. This is so cool.
Probably not a good idea to soak it, as eventually you'd overwhelm whatever colloidal properties it has, but looks like brief applications of water aren't a problem. What does the box or package insert say about bathing, etc.?
(This is really, really neat. I need to know about this. Thank you!)
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
I'm not sure CT. I'm back at work today, and I don't have the box with me. I'll check it out and let you know when I get home tonight.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Glad I could show you something that you found so interesting though!
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Cool.
It also looks like this bandage is infused with some sort of antimicrobials itself, so the topical application of an antibiotic might be superfluous anyway. I'll keep reading.
Thanks again.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
If you've found a site that talks about how the bandage works in more detail, I'd be interested in looking at it too. In the meantime I'll poke around and see what I can turn up; you've got me curious now.
Posted by sarcasticmuppet (Member # 5035) on :
Interesting thing my sister did once. Her little boy got a nasty scratch on his shin, so she cleaned it and put the Band-Aid brand newskin thing on it. Hunter insisted on having a regular bandaid as well (he's five and loves bandaids) so my sister put one on a corner of his wound. She didn't think it would do anything, but she said it had the same effect as if you had a scab and went swimming; there was white puffy stuff all around the wound. The newskin stuff aparently allows the wound to breath, but if another bandage is put over it, it can't do it.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote: That's when I found out about Silvadene cream, which is a white water-based emulsion of silver sulfadiazene
Oh, that stuff is WONDERFUL! My youngest managed to get a serious burn (approximately the size, but not the shape, of a silver dollar) about 10 months ago. The specialist prescribed sulfadiazene. It was amazing how quickly and completely the burn healed, especially compared to small ones I've received on my hands or fingers.
I just asked my daughter to show me her arms. It took very careful looking to find the barely-detectable scar. At first I thought I must be looking at the wrong arm. Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
You know, I was just browsing around Johnson & Johnson's site, trying to find some information about this type of bandage beyond the advertising copy (with no luck--they actually had less information available than did drugstore.com), and saw that they are making a bandage that they claims reduces existing scar tissue, leveling it out and reducing the redness.
Personally, I like my scars, and wouldn't want them to disappear (not that I really have that many), but it's cool that this is available for people who want it.
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
This is so cool! I always feel so safe and protected when CT does this! No matter what happens she's going to know the very best thing to do about it. Yay for CT! And these new bandaids are super cool. I'm going to get some to take to Iraq with me!
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Yeah, isn't that cool? CT is just the greatest (and would be even if she didn't always have this sort of information at her fingertips, it's worth mentioning).
In looking around on the Johnson & Johnson site, I found that they have these new bandages in a couple of different shapes, one of which is specifically designed to be placed over a blister. Pretty cool.
This is definitely a product I'd put in my first aid kit before heading off to a distant country.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
I am properly awed by y'all's flattery, and now I best go pinch myself before I get too big for my britches. *grin
(Anne Kate knows that I suffer from periodic low self-esteem, and so she is generous with her praise. Thank you, Anne Kate -- you made a difficult day much brighter. And thank you as always, Noemon, my good friend. I hope you heal well.)
rivka, that's great news. And sarcasticmuppet, that just seems to just confirm that these are a really new type of technology. Noemon, I found additional info before, but I can't find the link now. I'll try to track it down again.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Okay CT, I'm home with insert in hand. It doesn't say anything about bathing--it's really light on information period, unfortunately, but in the removal section it mentions that "Soaking the product in warm water will also help removal", so it looks like you were on target with your thinking.
Maybe I should have read these directions *before* putting on the bandages. It says that after applying a bandage, I should "cover the strip with [my] hand for one full minute to further warm and ensure best possible adhesion.
emphasis theirs. Yes, including having the "." in bold.
I didn't do that, and now, roughly 60 hours after applying the bandages, the one with the larger blister--the one that was reaching the edge of the bandage--is starting to peel up. It's only doing that in a serious way where what I had thought was serous matter (by the way, is serous a noun, or an adjective?) has reached the edge of the bandage though. On the strips that go out to either side, that are just anchoring the bandage in place, the edges have pulled away, but the bandage is otherwise very firmly anchored. The other one is still sticking fast at all points.
What I'd thought was serous matter may or may not be. The packaging states that "to provide extra protection, the strip forms a white gel cushion as it absorbs moisture from the wound". Now, what is this gel? Is it a coating of some sort on the inside of the bandage that becomes this gel substance when it gets wet, or reacts in some other way with the wound, or is it serous matter building up under the bandage, with a palatable description on the back of the box so as not to put people off? Peering under the loose edge of the bandage, it appears to be a spongy, sticky white gel; I'm leaning toward it not being something my body has exuded, but that could be what serous matter gets like under these conditions--I don't know. I'm going to have to do some experiments with some of the other bandages and see what happens.
I do know that I've put these on less serious cuts (not that these were really serious--I'm talking about cuts that probably didn't really need to be bandaged, except that they were in areas like knuckles where they would have been constantly split back open without a rubbery dressing like this). In those cases, I didn't notice any kind of gel bubble forming over the cut.
In terms of odor, the one that has continued to adhere completely has no discernable odor at all, while the one that has started to peel up has that "healthy healing wound" scent. You know what I mean about that? When I was a kid I used to really love that scent, but I've never talked to anyone else who was aware of it. Not that it's come up a lot.
Both wounds are itching fairly intensely, the one with the peeling bandage more than the other.
Hmmm...that's all I can think of to report.
[ August 15, 2003, 06:43 PM: Message edited by: Noemon ]
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
quote:Anne Kate knows that I suffer from periodic low self-esteem, and so she is generous with her praise.
Nope, she says it 'cause it's true.
People always baseline themselves, I think, which blinds them to how great they are. I know my wife does that; she routinely comes up with ideas that have been espoused by the greatest minds of human society, without her having been exposed to their ideas or writings, but she can never quite seem to grasp what that very obviously says about the caliber of her own mind.
[ August 15, 2003, 06:59 PM: Message edited by: Noemon ]
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
Hah! CT. That's funny. Generous with my praise? Nobody even begins to praise you enough! You're obviously one of the world's greatest doctors, you're unfailingly kind and thoughtful to everyone, and here on hatrack we worship you as a goddess! You claim I was generous with my praise? That was very faint praise indeed, my friend. Hah!
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Okay, I obviously have excellent PR going for me. That, and an aversion to displaying anything other than one's better side in public, apparently will get you quite far in this world.
Noemon, I'm still looking for the site again. I'll have to recreate my last google searches, now that I'm back at work on the same computer.
ak: (I love how solemn they look before bursting out into joy.)
[ August 16, 2003, 11:38 AM: Message edited by: ClaudiaTherese ]
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
(hey CT the big dork, turn on AIM! )
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Awesome! I'm making enemies at last, and they are ultracool people.
(mac, I will try, but you know how it goes between me and technology ...)
[Hmmm. No go. Can't download the program. Email?]
[ August 16, 2003, 11:44 AM: Message edited by: ClaudiaTherese ]
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
I peeled the bandage off my right foot (this was the bandage that has been peeling up on its own). The wound looks just as raw and unhealed as it did when I put the bandage on, oddly enough.
The white substance that I thought was serous seems to have actually been a gel formed from the backing of the bandage. The layer of it that was against the wound was stained a kind of yellow brown from the serous matter that must have been seeping from the wound. Scraping it away, it seems that the stain didn't penetrate very far into the gel.
I think that I'll bandge this wound with a regular band aid, keep one of the special bandages on the other foot (I'm going to have to change that one though; its bandage is peeling off too), and see which one heals more quickly.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Eeeew.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
No, awesome. A controlled clinical trial (n=2).
Noemon, if this selfless devotion to advancing medical knowledge leads to your doom (be it death, or mutation into the newest Xman, or whatever), you will be immortalized here at Hatrack.
But you've got to will me some DNA, as I have plans for a "kitchen experiment" (nudge-nudge, wink-wink), and the data we're collecting on your healing processes could prove invaluable.
... excellent ...
[I know what you mean about the scent of healing. It's like the freshest smell ever, sort of like after the rain, but even better -- a newborn baby, even before being cleaned and dried off, comes closest.]
[PS: "serous" = adjective, derived from "serum" (the noncellular components of blood), I think. I can see that my grammar suffered from the strain of excitement in the above posts. You've got to forgive me, though -- I mean, new bandage technology, how much better can it get? ]
[ August 16, 2003, 02:01 PM: Message edited by: ClaudiaTherese ]
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
Ew.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
Noemon, Are you still looking for what to do about the blisters when you go back to Aikido. I have lead several student groups on backpacking trips where blisters became a major issue. I recommend that you put the second skin stuff on the blisters and then put duct tape over the second skin. No, this is not a joke, it works really well. For years I used mole skin but I learned about using duct tape for blisters in a wilderness first aid course and it works even better than the mole skin. After the blisters heal, I would recommend putting duct tape on your feet before the Aikido class. It may get you some strange looks but it works really well for preventing friction blisters.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
I forgot to mention above that once the blisters have popped, put polysporin (or something similar) on them before you apply the bandage. It worked really well for our backcountry trips. No problems with infection.
Posted by The Rabbit (Member # 671) on :
CT, I'm curious as to how silvadene compares to ointments that contain chlorhexidine? Are you aware of any research that compares the two?
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Rabbit, all I know of chlorhexadine is its use as an oral rinse in peridontal problems, and that it can be embedded as a gelchip under the gumline for localized antimicrobial dissemination. We also use it as a skin prep sometimes, I think. I've never run across it in an ointment preparation. (Alucard? Tullaan? Theca?)
I don't think it's been approved for use in children. The Peridex oral rinse also can have the side effect of soft tissue ulceration, so it may be too strong for general recommendation to treat larger open wounds.
How often do ulcers occur? I have no idea. How would it compare against silvadene? Again, I have no real idea. However, I'll try to find out.
I use cloth medical or duct tape on intact skin to prevent blister from forming, too, especially when breaking in a new pair of shoes. Much better for friction to be exerted on the tape than your skin! I've never used it on already-damaged skin, as I was worried that it would later pull off the healing epidermal layer.
[ August 16, 2003, 03:40 PM: Message edited by: ClaudiaTherese ]
Posted by Icarus (Member # 3162) on :
Well, as long as we're talking about prescription stuff, I've been prescribed Synalar since I was a toddler to deal with near-constant rashes, and I have found it to be amazing stuff. I have used it for any other topical stuff that has come up, like cuts and burns, and it has always worked like magic.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
It IS magic. Posted by sarcasticmuppet (Member # 5035) on :
And I thought I'd never apply this thread to my daily life:
We spent the day at my Grandmother's condo in Hot Springs today, and my uncle brought his boat and water weinie tube thing. Anyway it was the first time I'd ever ridden it, and I held the handles so hard that my knuckles were skinned pretty bad from rubbing against the nylonesque handle/tube cover material. It effected seven of my fingers and oozed "a mixture of blood and clear fluid" just like Noemon's. They hurt like crazy until I got back inside, where I promptly cleaned them and put polysporin and bandaids on each hurt finger. Even though there was some Bandaid newskin around, I decided to abstain, thinking that what happened to Noemon might very well happen to me too. I'm not in the mood for blisters, thanks.
Just goes to show you how seemingly trivial things make a difference. Butterflies beating their wings and all.
[ August 16, 2003, 11:17 PM: Message edited by: sarcasticmuppet ]
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Glad to be of service, sarcasticmuppet!
Actually, though, it turned out that it just looked like I had blisters; actually these bandages apparently have a backing that turns into a gel when it comes into contact with the fluid coming out of a wound. I haven't had a chance to play with it yet, but I'm going to see plain old water will cause the reaction. Anyway, the gel cushions the wound and helps to keep it hydrated, I think.
I've put a normal bandage on my right foot, and one of these special bandages on my left. I'll be curious to see what happens with them. The new bandage hasn't developed the blister like gel cushion that the original did, probably because the wound isn't seeping as much as it was originally.
They've changed the bandage design, by the way. The bandages of this new type that I bought awhile back--maybe 6 months ago--were of uniform consistency, and all parts of the bandage were useful for treating a wound. The bandages of this type that I bought on Saturday, on the other hand, were clearer than the old ones, with a spot in the center, corresponding to the pad in a regular bandage, that had the coloration and consistency of the old bandages. It could be that this is a cost saving thing, as the 2nd skin material is probably more expensive to make than the surrounding material. Of course, I don't know for sure that the entire new bandage isn't made of this material. It could just be that consumer testing showed that people expected to see a "pad" on their bandages, and liked it better when one was present--kind of like the way people like it when buttons click, and so as a result touch screen buttons are made to emit a click when you press them.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Okay, final entry CT. Night before last I pulled off the conventional bandaid, and found that the wound was more or less healed. It looked a bit scuffed, and it's still a little red, but it basically just seems to be new skin. Last night, I removed the new type of bandage. It stuck to the wound pretty tightly; I probably should have soaked it in water before trying to remove it. The wound was still present, and while it wasn't oozing at all, the surface of it was covered with a thick, jelly-like substance, which turned into a regular scab when left exposed to the air. The new style of bandage seems to have actually slowed down the healing process, which was a surprise to me. I'd almost like to get two identical wounds again so that I could experiment some more.
[Edit--Okay, I was wrong. That thick scab just fell right off, and the skin beneath it was completely smooth and unblemeshed (although red, of course), while the wound that was bandaged with the conventional bandage is still rough (it's basically healed too though).]
[ August 22, 2003, 09:13 AM: Message edited by: Noemon ]
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Coooool.
What an incredible tool. Thanks for the data, Noemon.
But most of all, congratulations!
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeew.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
No, mack ... mmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
No, you weirdo. EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEW
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
But it improved the healing. All the little fibroblasts could cook away in peace, spinning their little bridging fibers, and all the blood cells were nice and cozy and warm under the gently protective gel, and the whole fabric of his skin grew back to its fuller potential.
That's awesome.
The icky pus-dripping necrotic face of the guy who lost his face to a flesh-eating fungal sinus infection, now that's ewwwww. (Anyone else watching Amazing Medical Miracles?)
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
I throw a party for Noemon's feet.
I also think "flesh-eating fungal sinus infection" would make an excellent name for a punk rock band.
Posted by mackillian (Member # 586) on :
*throws up on CT's feet* Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
So the new type bandaids are better, CT? I was leaning toward thinking the old style were still better, from Noemon's description. The difference in the skin makes you like the new ones more, despite the fact that there was still a scab? I'm interested to know.
[ August 26, 2003, 05:48 AM: Message edited by: ak ]
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
All of those 7 Up dots at my foot party are dancing to Kermit the Frog's rendition of "Happy Feet", just so everyone knows.
Sure CT, glad to provide the data! Actually, I'm just glad to have someone to provide the data *to*! Any time I have the opportunity to experiment on myself like this I take it (no, I don't purposely maim myself in the name of science; I've just, historically, taken advantage of my own clutziness to advance the cause of science ), but usually people's reactions are more like mac's.
Ak, the thing was, that final scab was basically a scab over healthy tissue. The 2nd skin bandage did such a good job with keeping the wound hydrated that the proto-scab remained in place in jelly form over the healing wound the whole time. When I took off the bandage, the skin beneath had healed completely, but the jelly was still there. When exposed it turned into a regular seeming scab, but it wasn't needed and didn't really have anything to adhere to, so it just fell off.
The new skin is still really red, by the way. I was kind of surprised by that.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Actually, no, I take that back. They're dancing to Flesh-Eating Fungal Sinus Infection's cover of "Happy Feet".
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
<laughs> My imagination has gone wild with that thought. I fancy I can hear that song exactly. Posted by ludosti (Member # 1772) on :
Now that your feet are all healed, next time you go to Aikido and end up doing hanmi handachi (you kneel and your uke stands) or seguriwaza (both you and your uke are kneeling) techniques, ask your sensai or whoever you're working with the proper way to mat walk so you don't have this problem again.
[ August 26, 2003, 10:52 AM: Message edited by: ludosti ]
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
I've already done so ludosti! Thanks though.
We really need a sheepish looking emoticon to be used as a response to
I'm going to have to learn Japanese so that I can keep all of the terminology straight.
Posted by ClaudiaTherese (Member # 923) on :
Again, what Noemon said. Posted by ana kata (Member # 5666) on :
Okay, Band-aid advanced healing experiment number 2: Diabetic ulceration on extremities.
Every time I get a bug bite on my ankles or feet, they take forever to heal and don't really get better. What happens is they start to itch and then I scratch them and they get BIGGER over time instead of smaller, sometimes turning into these nasty things that leave big scars and take months and months to ever go away.
So I have a bug bite on my shin that's trying to do that now, and I'm going to try these cool new bandaids on it and see how it does. Sorry there's no control group here. The only comparison will be with my memory of how these things usually go.
The bite itself I got on Labor Day when I went on a long hike. It had turned into one of those pink circular pits about a centimeter across, that oozed clear fluid. It itched. I applied the bandaid yesterday and now there's a nice little blister looking thing right over the circular wound, and it's not itching. I'm going to take a bath in it now and see if it stays on. More observations later.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Here it is! Wow, this was a year ago, almost exactly.
Posted by beverly (Member # 6246) on :
Heh, I opened it, saw the date, and thought, "Hey! This was just a week ago!"
Then I looked at the year.
Ouch man! I remember the pain....
Posted by ak (Member # 90) on :
I'm a true believer in the advanced healing bandaids now. I use them exclusively. I've even begun putting them on at the first sign of itching of a bugbite. It seems to prevent them ever growing into those big sores to begin with. Half an hour after I put the bandaid on, the bite will just totally stop itching. It's great. I'm thinking poor circulation is playing a role at the start of the process (making the resulting sore much bigger) as well as later on delaying the healing. Somehow catching the body's own fluids and keeping them next to the wound is the very best possible thing to do for a sore to heal it.
The insert says not for use by diabetics, so I use them with caution. Sometimes the sores start to itch with the bandaid on, after a few days, and bleed inside (the darkness shows through) and when that happens it seems to be better to pull it off and let it dry and air out for a couple of days before putting another one on. Yet they decrease the healing time (again, anecdotally, no controls because I want to HEAL) from like six or eight weeks to maybe one or two. A huge improvement for me. I hope I never have to be without these again.
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
That's fascinating Anne Kate. Thanks for the info. Next time I get a bug bite I'll try it!
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
How did you think to try it on a bug bite, by the way?
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Lesson learned, for me. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
![[Kiss]](graemlins/kiss.gif)
And thank you as always, Noemon, my good friend. I hope you heal well.)![[The Wave]](graemlins/thewave.gif)
![[Party]](graemlins/party.gif)
![[No No]](graemlins/nono.gif)