posted
My roommate was washing his car yesterday and saw another person doing the same. He noticed that she had a hose and was spraying down her engine. His engine (on a '98 Corolla) was pretty dirty so he thought he'd do the same.
Later, he was trying to change his oil and (I think) he misthreaded the oil filter when he replaced it. Anyway, for whatever reason, the filter was leaking like crazy when he started the car, and neither of us could get it back off.
So today, he took it into the Toyota dealership to get the oil change completed. There he was told that water had gotten into his engine, that it was kaput, and he'd need a new one.
I guess what I'm asking is, is this really possible? It sounded to me like someone was trying to take my roommate for a ride. I have seen other people hose down their engines and I've done it myself many times. Was I really endangering the entire engine by doing so, or does this sound like a lot of bull?
Posts: 2907 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
Water getting into the engine is a bad thing. Usually it happens because the head gasket blows and you have fluid from the cooling system going into the engine.
Something bugs me with the scenario you described. That is -- how did the water get in? Even if the oil filter was on partway, it's not sitting in a puddle of water or in anyway able to siphon a lot of water up into the engine.
The only way the engine should have to be entirely replaced, however, is if in hosing it down (while extremely HOT) he ended up cracking the block. Then, yes, cheaper to get a new engine.
I don't see any relationship between a misthreaded oil filter and needing a new engine due to WATER damage though, unless he ran the car dry (no oil) -- but that's not what the mechanic said, right? Definitely said water got into the engine.
Hmm...
Before doing anything rash, did he get the oil filter put on correctly? Has the car got oil in it?
Check the dipstick. Are there water droplets?
if yes, then do another oil change, completely, new filter and everything.
DON'T drive the car until this is done...
Anyway, good luck. If you have some hypothesis about how significant amounts of water got into the engine, it might change the answer.
Posts: 22497 | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
People have been able to salvage newer cars that were completely immersed in water for hours at a time. Water getting into the engine is not a problem as it can be drained and all of the fluids replaced. If anything, there may be some sensors and circuitry that got damaged by the water, but certainly not the whole engine.
Now, if he DROVE a car with a massive leak in the oil filter to the service station, then the engine may have seized. THAT would necessitate a new engine (or at least a new block).
Posts: 4753 | Registered: May 2002
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posted
New plugs are not very expensive. He may also want to check the plug wires and distributor (unless his engine has a distributorless ignition- in which case, just check the plugs and wires). If you do buy new plugs, make sure to buy Toyota OEM Platinum plugs- they'll be more expensive (up to three times as much), but they'll last longer and work better.
As to the whole engine replacement deal: I'm still very suspicious.
Posts: 4753 | Registered: May 2002
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NEVER, but NEVER drive a car that has oil leaking from the filter. The filter is just past the oil pump, so the oil in the filter is pressurized. Oil leaking from a gasket is not pressurized. It can drip for a pretty long time. But a pressurized leak will drain the engine of oil in a very short time. The rate of leakage from a filter also has a tendency to change suddenly, at which point the oil pump can empty your crankcase in just a few seconds (also happens when you leave the old oil filter gasket on the engine and then install a new oil filter on top of it).
Pretty much the instant your engine runs out of oil, you can kiss the crankshaft and rod bearings goodbye. Time for a new engine.
If the oil filter is leaking and you can't fix it yourself, get it towed to the shop, or call roadside assistance, but don't drive it.
Now:
You say your roomate drove the car to the dealership? Was it still running when he got there? Was it making loud banging noises, or was it pretty much just running? Did it have normal power or was the car barely moving? Did the oil light come on? If the car made it there without draining the crankcase, and there's no obvious symptoms, the engine might still be ok.
If the engine is still capable of running and isn't making unusual noises, have someone install an oil pressure gauge, and check the oil pressure. Also have someone do a compression check, first cold and dry, then after it's warm, and finally squirt some oil in each cylinder through the spark plug holes and check it one last time. A good mechanic should be able to tell if there's ring or cylinder damage based on the differences between these tests. Also if it's a head gasket.
Finally:
Oil with water in it looks like a chocolatey froth. Look inside the oil filler cap, usually it will create a light brown frothy film there.
There is no way to tell without doing a major tear down that water has destroyed the engine. But it's pretty easy to tell if the engine is destroyed if you can hear rod knocks or if it has no power even though it can rev with no load.
Even when a head gasket goes and water gets in the oil, that isn't what destroys the engine. Rather, hot combustion gases take a shortcut out of the cylinder and erode a groove in the head, or the top of the cylinder block. You can't see the erosion without taking off the head. And more often than not, there is no groove and you can replace the head gasket and go on your merry way, unless you've driven a long way with the bad head gasket, and/or the engine overheated. (Good time to get the valves done though, if the engine is older).
In any case, unless you left the oil filler cap off and sprayed water straight into the engine, the danger from hosing down your engine is very slight. It could cause wet plugs and make it hard to start, but it won't damage the engine.
Posts: 3735 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
I'd get a second opinion. I wonder how much water it would take to really eff up an engine. Some could certainly leak in through the filter when changing them out if he hosed it down beforehand, but I don't know if it would be enough to really foul up things.
I can't imagine a dealership would tell him he needed a new engine if there was a simpler solution, but maybe that's giving them too much credit.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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Hmm, that's a tough one without being able to see the car firsthand. Sure, it's possible for water to get into the engine just by hosing it down, but we would be talking about a significant quantity of water would have to get in there (and driving it that way for a long time) to ruin it. Plus any water that got in it would have drained out when he did the oil change.
A more likely scenerio would be he drove it to the mechanic's shop with a leaky oil filter, run low on oil, and burned-up the motor that way... a blown head gasket would have sent plenty of engine coolant into the oil pan. There would have been drivability problems (overheating, stalling, low power).
Anyway, there are many ways to remove water from an engine. Typically, when a car has been in a flood (provided it hasn't set too long), you can drain the motor like you're doing an oil change, replace the drain plug, and fill-up the motor with Diesel fuel. Let it set overnight (or longer), drain it completely, and replace the oil and filter. The next couple of oil changes should be done at 2,000 mile intervals.
He probably should get a second opinion, but he definitely shouldn't be driving the car.
posted
He did drive it to the dealer mechanic with the oil leaking. Talking to him this evening, he said the car died just as he pulled in, so from what I've been hearing, that was the likely cause for the engine failure. I'm not sure why they told him it was the water, but they can see the car and we can't.
Apparantly, he's just having the mechanics there replace the engine (to the tune of 3 large ). He doesn't know a lot about cars, and I don't know much more, so I'll pass along what I've learned here.
Thanks to all the mechanically-inclined for sharing their knowledge.
EDIT - He needs his car right away for work, which is why he's just having it repared now, rather than get a second opinion or sell it for parts.
Posts: 2907 | Registered: Nov 2005
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). He doesn't know a lot about cars, and I don't know much more, so I'll pass along what I've learned here.
