posted
I've had a lot of death in my life, please forgive me if I sound a bit callous.
I rejoice in a life well lived and a man rejoining his creator. Death is a transition not an end.
To me the death of the Pope is one of the signs of good and hope in the world. A race well run. Bravo.
Posts: 686 | Registered: Sep 2001
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posted
Well, a bunch of Cardinals sit down and elect somebody in the Vatican (the college of Cardinals). They burn some incense. The journalists sit outside and watch the smoke. It's black. When they've picked somebody, they change the stuff they're burning to white smoke so we all know they're done. The end.
Posts: 1757 | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
CNN added this to their web story 20 minutes later:
quote: The sacrament does not necessarily mean that the pope is dying. Last rites -- also known as the sacrament of anointing the sick -- are commonly given to people who are seriously ill as well. The pope received the sacrament after he was shot by a would-be assassin in 1981.
So he could be around for a little while. Given John Paul's many illnesses and that he lost 19 kilos in 5 weeks after his tracheotomy, the end is near, though.
Posts: 6316 | Registered: Jun 2003
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quote: The Pope was also given the last rites - the Roman Catholic sacrament reserved for the sick and dying, unconfirmed reports say.
BBC calls the reports "uncomfirmed", although I don't dispute that it's extremely likely that they have been given.
Posts: 8473 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
I understand he has been quite sick for a while...I hope that if his end is near, his passing is peaceful.
Posts: 1021 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
While it is sad that such a great man is passing, he seems to have led a wonderful, full life, and his death should be acknowledged not only with sorrow but also with joy, knowing that he is in a better place.
Posts: 4089 | Registered: Apr 2003
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quote: The sacrament does not necessarily mean that the pope is dying. Last rites -- also known as the sacrament of anointing the sick -- are commonly given to people who are seriously ill as well.
Yeah, calling it last rites is misleading. And freaks out the people who are being annointed.
Posts: 5700 | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
Last Rites and Annoiting of the Sick are virtually the same thing. Both are the same sacrament.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
I may be a Jew, but I know how great this man is.
I myself cannot think of a person living today that would'v made a better person than John Paul. During the War, there was a Jewish girl who was hid by a local Polish bishop. He was kind to her, and he tried to heal her mentally, as well as strengthening her physically.
The bishop is the dying Pope. He is a great man and a symbol to all religions of what a ladr of a major religion must be: kind, knowledgeable, a pacifist and a person who loves other persons. A Rabbi I tend to follow - Rabbi David Rosen (a great man himself, by the way) - was the Israel representative in the Vatican. He spoke very nicely of the Pope.
I could continue to say how I am impressed, but I know very little of the Pope, and so I'll leave Rome alone.
quote:On Thursday night, as his health deteriorated, the pontiff received the Catholic Church's sacrament Anointing of the Sick, formerly known as Last Rites or Extreme Unction -- a ritual of healing, a Vatican source told CNN.
I think they got this wrong. They say "formerly" when the Anointing of the Sick, Last Rites, and Extreme Unction (as far as I remember, it's been a while since I studied this stuff) are all seperate things.
Posts: 4953 | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
I just heard on the news, confirmed, that Pope John Paul has passed away.
My mother is here with me, and she just happened to ask me a question. I didn't know the answer. So I thought I would ask our Jatraquero Catholics.
What is the Pope to the Catholic people? She first asked me if they believed he is an incarnation of Christ. I said, "I don't think so. I think he is analagous to the president of our church (Mormon)." She said, "But don't they think of him as holy? We don't really think of the president as holy, but a man chosen to preside over the church." I said, "I dunno. Do you want me to ask the people on Hatrack?" She said, "Sure!"
Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Doctrinally, the pope is regarded as the successor of St. Peter, leader of the apostles after the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. This is an important factor in the tradition that the pope is believed to have jurisdiction over the entire Christian church in matters of faith, morals and church government. This doctrine is known as papal primacy.
quote:Pope Boniface VIII, in his Bull Unam Sanctum (1302), spelled out the doctrine of the necessity of the Church for salvation and with it the necessity of submission to the Roman Pontiff. Regarding the primacy of authority of Peter and his successors he stated:
But this authority, although it is given to man and is exercised by man, is not human, but rather divine, and has been given by the divine Word to Peter himself and to his successors in him, whom the Lord acknowledged an established rock, when he said to Peter himself: Whatsoever you shall bind etc. [Matt. 16:19]. Therefore, whosoever resists this power so ordained by God, resists the order of God [cf. Rom. 13:2] ... Furthermore, we declare, say, define, and proclaim to every human creature that they by necessity for salvation are entirely subject to the Roman Pontiff.
quote:This doctrine of papal primacy was further developed at the First Vatican Council which declared in 1870 that “in the disposition of God the Roman church holds the preeminence of ordinary power over all the other churches.” This was also the same council that approved the dogma of papal infallibility, deciding that the “infallibility” of the Christian community extended to the pope himself, at least when speaking on matters of faith.
posted
The Pope is called the Holy Father, but that does not mean he is "holy" in the sense of being a god. He is holy in a way a man can be: patient, loving, caring, forgiving, honest and good.
Posts: 5700 | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
bev, there is also a distinction to be made between official doctrine and laity traditions. (IIRC, Puppy has noted some of this in the LDS custom as well, so it is likely a common thing.) You will find some Catholics who venerate the Pope more than others and some who go beyond veneration. Official doctrine (I believe) is that he is a man who represents and leads the Church, and when needed, will speak (infalliably) as with the voice of God.
However, I know Catholics in my family who cherish items that have been touched by the Pope as if that touch made these sacred objects. So, I think it varies in practice.
posted
Thanks for the info! My mom isn't here at this moment, but when she gets back, I will share this information with her.
Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:What is the Pope to the Catholic people? She first asked me if they believed he is an incarnation of Christ. I said, "I don't think so.
We absolutely do not think of the Pope as an incarnation of Christ.
quote:I think he is analagous to the president of our church (Mormon)."
I'm not sure the status of the Mormon President, so I'm not sure how analogous this is.
quote:She said, "But don't they think of him as holy? We don't really think of the president as holy, but a man chosen to preside over the church." I said, "I dunno. Do you want me to ask the people on Hatrack?" She said, "Sure!"
quote:The title pope, once used with far greater latitude (see below, section V), is at present employed solely to denote the Bishop of Rome, who, in virtue of his position as successor of St. Peter, is the chief pastor of the whole Church, the Vicar of Christ upon earth.
Besides the bishopric of the Roman Diocese, certain other dignities are held by the pope as well as the supreme and universal pastorate: he is Archbishop of the Roman Province, Primate of Italy and the adjacent islands, and sole Patriarch of the Western Church.
The rest of the article talks about the extent of his powers within the Church.
The Questions About Catholicism thread has some details on papal infallability.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:Kama summed this up pretty well. The office of Pope is believed to be one instituted by Christ to Peter in the Gospels, possessor of the "keys to the kingdom of heaven," so the office can be considered holy in another sense
Wait, Peter as in the one who denied Jesus three times at Gethsemane? (coming from someone whose almost total knowledge comes from Andrew Lloyd Webber, Charleton Heston and Kevin Smith)
Posts: 4515 | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:13(O)Now when Jesus came into the district of (P)Caesarea Philippi, He was asking His disciples, "Who do people say that (Q)the Son of Man is?"
14And they said, "Some say (R)John the Baptist; and others, (S)Elijah; but still others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets."
15He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"
16Simon Peter answered, "You are (T)the Christ, (U)the Son of (V)the living God."
17And Jesus said to him, "Blessed are you, (W)Simon Barjona, because (X)flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
18"I also say to you that you are (Y)Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of (Z)Hades will not overpower it.
19"I will give you (AA)the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and (AB)whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven."
20(AC)Then He warned the disciples that they should tell no one that He was (AD)the Christ.