posted
hi i need everyone's help. I need help with having a break down of the Ideological, Political, Social, Economic, and Aesthetic aspects of the Humans and Piggies on Lusitania, and also maybe you can send me some websites with info about this. ty in advance
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posted
I had a great little satirical piece about how the piggies represent Card's desire to go back toward Kipling's "White Man's Burden" philosophy, with Human as Gungha-Din, but I was afraid somebody would take it seriously.
So I'll just say, do your own homework. If you want us to critique some of your own ideas, there are probably people here willing to do that. But don't just try to get us to do your assignment.
posted
Social - Mayor and Bishop are highest followed by the scientists the xenologers and xenobiologists. Probably the next people are who contribute most to the colony like farmers and fishermen.
did it ever talk about consequences for rule breaking? and How they respond in a group? Other than breaking the Starway Congress rules.
Piggies - Father Trees along with the Mother Tree are highest, followed by the wives(big and small), then the normal male piggies that talk to the xenologers.
posting Political next
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posted
Political - System of Gov. - Mayor is highest authority although probably discusses issues with bishop.How are they chosen?
doesn't really talk about Laws and how they are Enforced
WHo makes the decisions - The mayor based on what she receives from the Congress through the ansible.
Piggies - System of Gov. - Wive's tell male piggies what to do. How do the wive's choose the Leader? and How do they reach their decisions? Leaders of the male piggies whoever is most willing to become a father tree like human and leafeater. How are laws enforced - exiled from the tribe?
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posted
I needed to look up "Pentadic Analysis," so, chances are, I couldn't be much help to you. However, thanks for pointing me to something I didn't know about. For others who might fall into the category of the Pentadic-deprived, here are a few links:
posted
I read it right but assumed that it was a mistake. I have noticed though that most reviews I've read by established critics stike me as pedantic by definition.
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posted
i'm a junior and it's the Anthropological Pentad. My assigntment to to write a paper the actually topic is : Speaker for the Dead: a Pentadic Analysis
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Ideological: beliefs, controlling ideas,base of the other systems, What are their views on A) Nature of man,God and everything B)Law, Religion, Justice, Morality, Reality
Political: system of government, who are the leaders, how are they chosen, Who makes the decisions, and how. Who has the power is it formal/informal. How are the laws enforced
Social: how do people respond in a group, what are the roles and status in the society. Classes and nobility. What are hte consequences for rule breaking
Economic: goods/services, Labor System, what are the demands. Resources, trade, and distribution. How are needs met?
Aesthetic: Beauty/Artistic expression/ recreation. what do they veiw as art and beauty? what do they do for fun?
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quote:Probably the next people are who contribute most to the colony like farmers and fishermen.
I somehow doubt this. While farmers are no doubt essential to the colony, no single farmer is essential to the colony. It's like school teachers today -- teaching youth is an extremely important job, and one that people are constantly lauding. And yet we pay teachers very little, because every individual teacher is seen as replacable.
I would say that the specialists in the colony would get much more prestige. The person able to make and maintain heavy machinery, for example.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
they really don't talk about the colony at all. The only time i can remember where they talk about the villagers is when everyone comes out to listen to Ender speak for the ones that have passed
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posted
I feel so incredibly sorry for you, nikko. I'm actually hard-pressed to imagine a topic that would more effectively suck the joy out of OSC's single greatest novel, except perhaps trying to do a semiotic analysis from the perspective of the feminist bourgeoise. And even then, this would come a pretty close second.
*shudder* Is it okay to just tell the teacher that you refuse to participate in this kind of crappy, pseudo-intellectual exercise? What if we could get you a signed letter from Scott himself pointing out that he disapproves of letting his books be abused in this fashion? Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
i would love that. Maybe he could come visit my class and tell my teacher that he ruins his book and everything that we learned from him is wrong. We learned a lot of Jungian stuff for Dune though, very cool stuff
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quote:I feel so incredibly sorry for you, nikko. I'm actually hard-pressed to imagine a topic that would more effectively suck the joy out of OSC's single greatest novel, except perhaps trying to do a semiotic analysis from the perspective of the feminist bourgeoise. And even then, this would come a pretty close second.
This is pretty common. My introduction to OSC was when my roomate 4th year took an anthropology through fantasy and science fiction course. His paper sounded a lot like this, although his teacher was more interested in gender roles.
By the way, nikko, from what I was able to glean re: Pentadic Analysis (a la Burke), your categories above are not the standard list. Is your prof using some other structure that you must follow in lock step in order to get a decent grade or what?
Is this really an exercise in how to do a Pentadic Analysis -- in which case any old book would do -- or is it seriously related to a study of Speaker for the Dead?
Maybe you could do a Pentadic Analysis of pseudo-intellectualism and the obfuscation of simple reality.
Who: professors in the "soft" sciences. What: deliberate recasting of stuff everyone knows into jargonistic mumbo-jumbo Why: because that way they feel like they have a lock on knowledge in their narrow sub-specialization and can serve as gatekeepers controlling access for future generations of would-be scholars Where: um...pretty much everywhere When: ever since the dawn of man.
From this we conclude that all knowledge is a game, and the rules are more important than the facts. So, the way to succeed is to learn the rules and play by them until one can make up new rules to the exclusion of other players.
posted
Actually, even before the mayor and bishop, Novinha is the most important in both the political and social, using your definitions. Without her, the colony would die. The most important job in the village is staying ahead of the descolada.
Isn't it?
While she shuns the socialization, she's still got the colony by the, um, tail, so to speak. They would do anything to further her research (once they know about it.) And politically, she's the one person they can't afford to lose, because her death would mean the death of everyone.
Secondly, I wonder if you really understood the part about the piggies and their hierarchy.
quote:Leaders of the male piggies whoever is most willing to become a father tree like human and leafeater. How are laws enforced - exiled from the tribe?
This makes me wonder if you really got it. The leaders of the male piggies are the father trees. All the males want to be a father tree. It's not a matter of who's the most willing, but who is the bravest in battle, or the smartest (remember, Human and Leafeater both did something great to become father trees.) And punishment is death as a brother tree. Dead. No children, never a father tree.
The mothers are revered, and the wives take care of the mothers. That's why the wives are obeyed. They control the mothers.
But this should be on the other side.
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But seriously, isn't a pentad any group of five? I would think the teacher could pick any five things at random.
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posted
what i meant by the leader of the males was the leader of the actual piggies that run around not the father trees themselves.
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posted
wow - I really have to second Tom's thoughts - what an awful way to have the pleasure sucked out of a wonderful book . . . thank heavens I discovered Ender's Game, Songmaster, Wyrms, Folk of the Fringe, etc., before my teachers/prof's thought to ruin it . . .
I also like Bob's ideas . . .
Bob, can I quote you?
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posted
"what i meant by the leader of the males was the leader of the actual piggies that run around not the father trees themselves."
Why do you think there is one? I think by referring to the piggies that run around as the actual piggies that you suggest that you don't quite understand the role of the father trees in their society.
The piggies that run around are the test piggies. The father trees are piggies who have passed the test.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
I wonder why that is. Besides the honor that the running-around piggies give them, what power can the father trees exert on others? If the piggies revolted against the father trees, who would stop them? Why has this never happened?
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posted
Because any tribe that revolted against the father trees would die within a generation, since the mobile piggies themselves are completely sterile.
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posted
"You are assuming that the father trees a) could choose to not reproduce and b) would choose to not reproduce."
As the father trees are conscious and at least somewhat mobile, I think, yes, they could absolutely choose not to reproduce. And I strongly suspect that, in a situation in which the immature piggies revolted against them, they would do exactly that -- in addition to refusing to give of their wood, advice, etc.
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I've been waiting for the "pedantic" Dobbie
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