posted
My husband LOVES my cooking. He gets mildly perturbed when I suggest we eat out, and it has nothing to do with money. His rather obvious admiration for my culinary skills makes me feel like a goddess of the kitchen.
Our first Thanksgiving together, though, I was pregnant with our daughter. I wasn't feeling well, so he cooked. Frozen pizza. Not a major undertaking, true, but a sweet gesture nonetheless. We lived here in OK, and I just told my parents the truth: that we wanted to keep it simple and have a quiet Thanksgiving at home, sans guests. We did host Christmas that year, though.
By the time our second Thanksgiving rolled around, we'd moved to FL. My in-laws hosted that one...but Hubby still had fond memories of the last Christmas dinner. Since then, we've hosted every major holiday and most birthday parties.
Well, skip forward to a couple of years ago. We moved back to OK, and continued to host the events-but not just because he likes my cooking. See, my parents live in a tiny travel trailer-the kind you would pull behind a truck to go camping in. Furthermore, this travel trailer is parked next to the beer bar my mother manages. It was agreed that it just made more sense to have the shindigs where there was space and facilities. Duh.
Okay, so the bar will be closed Thursday. There's a regular kitchen there (that's where Mom cooks most of their meals anyway) and plenty of space. Mom's favorite thing in the world is to cook, and she's felt really bad for years that she couldn't host anything.
But.
Not only will Hubby be angry if he doesn't get my turkey dinner, we're both non-smokers. The smell of that place makes me feel ill for days, not to mention that I have three little kids to think of.
My mother told my sister several days ago that she's hosting this Thanksgiving. (Nobody asked me, or even said anything.)
Yesterday, I was talking to my mother on the phone, and mentioned that we picked up the turkey (Hubby's bonus from work) and that I'd be shopping today. She said not to do that, because she is going to get everything. Then she asked me to meet her today and give her the turkey so she can cook it. She wants us to come down there. I was...well, I didn't tell her no. To be honest, I was dumbfounded by her lack of...um...well...thoughtfulness.
I told Hubby about the conversation last night, and he was very, very angry. Not only am I not taking the turkey down there, but now he doesn't really want my parents up here either.
I spoke to my sister this morning. She says she tried to talk Mom out of hosting several days ago (but failed to tell me anything ) to no avail. She says Mom really wants to cook the meal, and that she'll be dissappointed if we don't come. She even suggested that Mom and Dad just come up here early and cook, or spend the night up here, but Mom had excuses.
So what now? How do I get out of this? I guess I could get the flu like I did last year. Why, oh why can't they all just get along? I feel like my first priority should be to my husband and children, but I really don't want to hurt my mother's feelings. Besides which, the guilt either way has already ruined this holiday for me.
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Wow -- tough one, Boon. Looks like someone's feelings are going to get hurt no matter which way you go, and none of them are flexible enough to give in to the other for JUST ONE DAY. That is so sad.
I don't have any words of advice, but I will be praying that something opens up out of this gridlock for you, so you can have a blessed holiday.
posted
did you tell her that you get sick when you go to her bar? Just say, because of your health you can't make it...but tell her that she is more than welcome to come to your place.
Posts: 1901 | Registered: May 2004
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Boon
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posted
You know, it would just be a whole lot easier if Hubby had to work. Then, I could put the turkey in the oven, take the kids down and have lunch there, and then come back and have dinner ready when he gets home. I don't think I'll be able to talk him into that though...it's bad enough that he has to work Christmas Eve AND Christmas Day.
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Isn't it hard when what should be a wonderful family time becomes unbelievable stressful because of family? I'm sorry you have to deal with this now. Obviously it's real important to your mother, and I'd say go with that, but the smoke smell in the bar is a real issue-- yuck. It was inconsiderate of her not to tell you she was planning this...
If you don't go, is your Mom likely to be angry for a long time, or will it blow over in a few days? I mean, if it's likely to cause a family rift, you and hubby may want to grit your teeth and endure... Otherwise-- do what makes you and your own family happiest.
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Boon
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Well Lupus, no, I haven't. Why? Because she's tied to the place. Really. She sees the kids about once a month, and most of those times I have to take the kids there. Then, they spend most of the afternoon in the trailer watching TV with Dad while I help her with her work so she'll have time to come over and visit with them for a little bit. Then I feel sick for days, but I have dealt with it because I think it's important that the kids have a good relationship with their grandparents. Very seldom does she have time off.
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Boon
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Oh, ctm, there couldn't really be a bigger family rift. My mother tells anyone that'll listen how bad my husband is. And my husband doesn't like my parents, though most of the time he's very accommodating because he doesn't want to upset me.
Truly, the tension was what motivated us to move to Florida last time. (Though it was nice to be closer to Hubby's parents too. )
Basically, my husband feels like he's bending a lot just to let me invite them up here. And my mother feels like he's not bending at all because she can't always get what she wants. And I'm in the middle.
The only thing I can see that would be worse would be for them to tell each other how they really feel, openly and honestly. Then, I'd either have to get a divorce or my mother would never talk to me again. Sorry, I'd choose the family I've built. But I don't want to choose. Why should I have to?
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Boon
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Maybe...
What if I propose that, since Hubby's off for Thanksgiving but has to work Christmas, that I cook this one here this time, and she can come up and cook Christmas dinner.
Mom's excuse for not wanting to come up here to cook Thanksgiving is that she'd have to get here too early to cook...she likes to have Thanksgiving at about 2pm. But Hubby won't be home until 7pm on Christmas, so the cooking will have to start much later.
Now how to word it so she'll agree without trying too hard to guilt me...
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Couldn't your mom play host at your place? She can still do all the cooking and take all the credit she likes, but just use your facilities. [Edited to add: Ah, Boon answered this question while I was typing this post. OK, scratch this suggestion.]
Maybe you can tell your mom that you are very excited about tasting her cooking. However, you are afraid that you wouldn't be able to enjoy her food if you are feeling nauseated from the smoke. Focus on how much you love her food instead of how much you hate the smell.
posted
Sounds like a really tough situation. I really feel for you. I know a bit about what it's like to have a mom and husband who don't get along. Thankfully, things have been much better lately. I'm hoping they stay that way.
My initial reaction is that perhaps since the bar is closing down, your mom has sentimental reasons for wanting to cook the thanksgiving meal at her own home. It's a special thing to do, and your mom hasn't been able to do it for years. It really seems like it is very important to her.
I'm spending Thanksgiving with my inlaws. They're great people, but they all smoke. I hate it, and it makes me feel sick, too. They offer to take it outside, but I can't chase them from their own home, so I take frequent walks outside. It helps. But maybe this once, your parents can smoke outside.
Maybe, you could go over when it is time to eat, and suggest dessert at your home, then the after-thanksgiving layabout is at your house.
posted
"Basically, my husband feels like he's bending a lot just to let me invite them up here. And my mother feels like he's not bending at all because she can't always get what she wants."
Well, no. Your mother feels like he's not bending because inviting them is pretty much the least you could do, and because he clearly doesn't respect her.
My mother-in-law has a similar situation with her mother-in-law, which I find a little baffling; she doesn't like her much, considers her distinctly "lower-class," and avoids her house like the plague because of the cigarette smell.
The dynamic here is one that I find a bit intriguing, though, since you appear to feel the same way that your husband does about your mother: you don't take her concerns seriously, you're slightly disgusted by her, and you'd rather do things yourself than risk letting her screw them up.
Now, I don't know how often you see her nowadays, or what else you do for her. But if most of your contact happens around the holidays, my gut feeling is that you owe her this Thanksgiving; I think she needs to feel like she's contributing and is capable of hosting an event like this -- and even if it goes wrong, it's only one day out of the entire year. If your husband misses your specific turkey dinner so badly, you can always make him a huge turkey dinner in February; there's no law that says stuffing and cranberry sauce can only be served on holidays.
The smoke smell is a major concern, however, particularly if it makes you seriously ill. I don't know whether you've addressed this with her before, but it's not unreasonable for you to require that she do her best to clean the place up and fumigate it before your visit. If she can't or won't, you're going to have to explain to her why it's such a problem -- and then decide whether it's worth it to you to be sick for days, spend the money to rent a hall, or find another place (like your own) to host the event. If she takes you seriously, she'll understand that you aren't kidding or exaggerating the effect the smoke has on you -- and will hopefully be considerate, herself, in deciding whether to subject you to it.
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posted
Boon, give her a call and say, "Mom, I have a problem I hope you can help me with. See, you are being so generous to host Thanksgiving this year and it's a gesture we appreciate. We don't want to disrespect that generosity, but we have a problem. Eating in a bar with its heavy cigarette smoke scent makes it very difficult for us to enjoy a meal. I want to enjoy your meal fully, especially given how much work you'll be putting into it, and I know I couldn't at the bar. Do you think we could work out a solution? What ideas do you have?"
Several years ago, my father informed me he was bringing his girlfriend to Christmas. At my house. My mother lives with us. I could not envision how this would work, so I called him back and said that I was open to meeting his girlfriend (who we, btw, had never even heard of until his announcement, and oh, btw, he lives in NC where we live in WA, so they'd be staying for a few days...) but that she was not welcome in my house.
Well, that went over like a brick. Dad got mad and said some things. I was already mad and said some more things. We stopped talking for over a year. He married his girlfriend, and I refused to go to the wedding, citing that it was too far to go and we couldn't afford it (a lie).
We've since reconciled, and they are coming for Thanksgiving. But looking back, I can see we both behaved very badly, and am sorry I didn't at least try doing some problem solving with him first. That above suggestion is a modified version (for your circumstance, obviously) what I've since thought I wish I'd said to Dad.
Posts: 5948 | Registered: Jun 2001
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Boon
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quote: The dynamic here is one that I find a bit intriguing, though, since you appear to feel the same way that your husband does about your mother: you don't take her concerns seriously, you're slightly disgusted by her, and you'd rather do things yourself than risk letting her screw them up.
Wow. This is SO not me. And yet...the grain of truth is that I am a tad dissappointed in her, and in my father.
However, I personally don't really give a crap who does the cooking. Ham or turkey is not a debate around here...I'll happily eat frozen pizza on Thanksgiving if it means I don't have to deal with this crap.
It's not that I don't trust her "not to screw it up" but rather that she seems, to me, unwilling to compromise for this one day.
FWIW, it's simply not possible to "fumigate" the bar, which is where she's planning us to eat; it's also getting colder out, so the baby, at least, will have to stay indoors. Furthermore, I see her frequently, the kids see her less, and my husband rarely. Why? Because she's unable to tear herself away from the fricking bar!
I'm willing to have her host Thanksgiving here. I'm willing to host it here myself. I'm willing to pay for us all to go out to eat. I'm willing to rent a place. I'm willing to do almost anything, but I'm not willing to seriously piss my husband off by insisting we go to the bar for Thanksgiving, especially since it makes me sick...not to mention the babies.
Yes, she wants to cook. I understand that. I can even understand that she doesn't necessarily want to cook here. But, while she's concerned with what she wants, I'm concerned for the health of my family and my marriage.
As far as her "feeling capable" and "contributing", well, she can do that anywhere, right? Why does she have to host Thanksgiving in the one place guaranteed to start an argument? Like she doesn't know Hubby hates the bar...
See, it's not like she's offering to host us in her home. IT'S A BAR!
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*nod* I suspect she thinks of the bar as her home, though. If she's living in a tiny trailer, I'd be surprised if the bar weren't considered their "real" living room for company.
That said, I think the smoke concern is a really serious one, and it's a conversation you have to have with her -- especially since that's the reason you don't want to go. You don't want to beg off under some other pretext and always leave her wondering why you weren't interested; I think you need to tell her, "Look, I'd love to have you cook Thanksgiving dinner for us, but we need to find a place to eat besides the bar. The baby and I just can't tolerate the smoke, and it's really uncomfortable for us there." Then offer to work with her to find an alternative.
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Could she cook the food there and then take it somewhere else? If not your place, maybe an indoor picnic somewhere nearby?
Posts: 2919 | Registered: Aug 2004
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Note that she may still feel slighted -- especially if she thinks of the bar as an extension of her home -- but I don't think there's any way around that. You just need to make it clear that you aren't objecting to the bar's cleanliness or suitability for any other purpose, but simply to the smoky environment.
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quote: I'm willing to have her host Thanksgiving here. I'm willing to host it here myself. I'm willing to pay for us all to go out to eat. I'm willing to rent a place. I'm willing to do almost anything, but I'm not willing to seriously piss my husband off by insisting we go to the bar for Thanksgiving, especially since it makes me sick...not to mention the babies
You seem very flexible--you just do NOT want to eat in the bar. Why not tell your mom "I'm willing to do almost anything. . . but I don't want to eat in the bar." Because of the smoke, or because it's a bar--you just are dead set against having a holiday meal there, as is your husband. Then list the options I quoted above, and add any others you can think of, and see if your mother has any alternatives. Maybe if she cooks in her bar and you eat elsewhere--whatever. If she still won't budge, that's a problem. If you show lots of flexiblity and she shows little or none, maybe there's more to it? Or maybe she's just a stubborn old broad.
I hope it looks up for you, Rayanne. Try not to get uber-stressed about it. Rent some funny holiday family disaster movies. Good luck, sweetie! Email me.
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Again to emphasize that this is an issue of smokiness and nothing else, perhaps she could do a lot of the cooking on the day before (or at least the prep work) at her place. It isn't the sanitariness that worries you, just eating & breathing in the smke. If the stuff was taken to your house the day or night before, whether in whole or just prepped parts, you could start the cooking early so she didn't have to get up early.
Even something simple like you preheating the oven and popping in the (already prepped) turkey might make the cooking time do-able for her. She could show up later if everything else was ready to go.
[ November 23, 2004, 11:58 AM: Message edited by: Sara Sasse ]
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I am so sorry, Boon - I know how stressful holidays can be when plans don't line up the way everyone would like.
oh, and jeniwren - I can relate. I have a story you won't believe. I don't want to derail Boon's thread - maybe we need to start one with relative horror stories, just in time for the holiday season.
Boon, best of luck - I don't have any real sage advice - I hope it gets worked out though.
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Boon, is it the old-smoke smell, or will your family be smoking when they are there?
Here in MA there is a law against all public smoking now, and while I am not sure I want the goverment butting in on everything I really appreciate the fact that I can go out into a bar, or more likely a pool hall 9:D), and not end up smelling like a dirty ashtray. Also, my allergies are a lot better without it all around me. Most of my friends, even the ones who smoke, agree that going out is far more enjoyable now...
posted
Thank you all for your good wishes and advice. For better or worse, it's done.
I called her up and made some small talk for a few minutes...and then she asked when I'd like to meet her so she could get the turkey.
"Well...here's the thing, Mom." "Uh, oh. What's wrong?" "Well, Hubby and I have talked it over, and, well...we don't really want to eat there in the bar. He's been sick, I'm still coughing, and the baby's getting a runny nose already. With the smoke in there..." "Oh." Real huffy. "Gotta go, a customer just came in." Click.
So I waited half an hour or so and called her back.
"Mom, please, don't take this personally. You know I love you, and I love your cooking. I just don't want any of us to be sick." "I know. What is (Hubby) wanting us to do?"
Finally, some compromise. So, I'm going to just put the turkey in the oven, and then she and Dad will come up later in the morning, and she'll cook the rest.
She said that she just felt bad that, for the last few years, I've done all the cooking. Not only that, but they frequently have to leave immediately after the meal, so I've had all the clean up as well. She said she was trying to help me by having the mess down there.
I told her how much I appreciated that, but that I just couldn't handle being down there for very long feeling the way I do, and that, really, I don't do much clean up anymore anyway since the kids are older now.
Congrats on reaching out and making it turn out right, Boon! I'm glad your mom decided to be flexible and after thinking about it she was willing to see your point of view.
It's tough to make that call -- and I admire you for calling her not just once, but twice, to get it resolved.
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*Go Boon!* I'm extremely thankful that we aren't seeing *any* family this Thanksgiving. Probably an awful thing to be thankful for. Steve's family is cool, but we've got too much going on at the house as it is, and I'd lose all of my holiday "veg" time if we went anywhere.
You said in your first post that not only did hubby not want you to bring the turkey to your mom, but he also didn't really want them at your house. Has this changed?
Also, I'm wondering what the heck is wrong with your husband. Don't get me wrong, he sounds just like my husband, but I consider my husband to be a huge pain in the ass. I will never understand why people (was going to say men, but realized that women can be like this, too) can't seem to get over themselves and sacrifice for one day. I mean, what's the big deal. He won't be able to eat your turkey dinner on Thanksgiving. It's not like you can't cook one for him on Friday. Turkeys are pretty darn cheap right now. Better yet, wait until he has a day off, so he can watch the kids while you cook.
But it's not just the whining about wanting to eat your cooking. It seems like he wants his way all the time. Wah. It's not like you ask him to deal with them on a regular basis. You are the one that goes to them. He isn't even involved. You are the one that has to deal with it on a monthly basis. Tell him to suck it up and act like a man, or you'll make him go on your monthly visits. They are his children, too and he should want extended family interaction for his kids. Even dysfunctional family interaction. Your kids didn't pick their grandparents and when he married you, he married them. He needs to deal with it.
But, like I said, my husband ain't no ray of sunshine in situations like this. He won't even speak to my parents, let alone eat a meal with them. I didn't speak to them either for about 5 years, but I finally decided that my son needed more family than just my m-i-l, my husband and me. And we never interact with them on holidays, so it's not a problem. But my husband can still be a pain in the rear on holidays and I finally told him to stop ruining them for me. I compromised and compromised and compromised and then I realized that he hadn't compromised at all. I got tired of dreading the holidays and told him to shape up or stay the hell away. And last thanksgiving, when Caleb and Bob_Scopatz and tabithcat came, I told him he better act like a normal human being (read: not "I growed up in a trailer court and ain't never learned how to eat with forks and talk to people") or get out of the house for the day, because if he ruined that day for me, I wouldn't speak to him till after the new year. He was amazingly polite. That day, anyway.
I never understood people who had no sense of comportment, delayed gratification or just plain old-fashioned common decency manners. And nothing makes holidays more miserable than someone acting like a jerk and making everyone else so on edge you could cut the tension with a knife.
Tell your husband that holidays are to make you miserable, how else would you know that you were happy the rest of the year?
Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
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Boon - that's awesome! Glad you got it worked out, and honestly, it sounds like your mom is just feeling bad that she hasn't contributed enough in the last few thanksgivings. She wants to help you, and I think that's cool.
Good for you for stating the ground rules though - you don't want your family exposed to all that smoke. It may have hurt your mom's feelings a little - but it sounds like she took it well, and understood your position.
All in all, I'd say that was an excellent resolution. Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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Well done! It's interesting to see what your mom's reason for doing this was-- she wanted to unburden you, and yet it was something you don't consider a burden! She was doing this for a good reason, and good for you for reaching out to her so calmly. I'm glad everything is working out.
As far as Kayla's comment re: the hubby-- I'm assuming his desire not to have your family at your house was a momentary snit and he's over it now. We all tend to react that way when disappointed...
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quote: My mother tells anyone that'll listen how bad my husband is. And my husband doesn't like my parents, though most of the time he's very accommodating because he doesn't want to upset me.
I would assume hubby doesn't want to be disrespected in his own home. Can't argue with that. I'm glad you got your plans back, Boon. Isn't family fun?
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Then she asked me to meet her today and give her the turkey so she can cook it. She wants us to come down there. I was...well, I didn't tell her no. To be honest, I was dumbfounded by her lack of...um...well...thoughtfulness.![[Mad]](mad.gif)
) to no avail. She says Mom really wants to cook the meal, and that she'll be dissappointed if we don't come. She even suggested that Mom and Dad just come up here early and cook, or spend the night up here, but Mom had excuses.![[Wall Bash]](graemlins/wallbash.gif)
Why, oh why can't they all just get along? I feel like my first priority should be to my husband and children, but I really don't want to hurt my mother's feelings. Besides which, the guilt either way has already ruined this holiday for me. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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This is SO not me. And yet...the grain of truth is that I am a tad dissappointed in her, and in my father.![[Dont Know]](graemlins/dontknow.gif)
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