posted
Many of you may know I am not yet a citizen of Canada. I am a landed immigrant and a permenant resident. When my family applied to become citizens, they told us it would take twelve to eighteen months.
This friday, twenty-four months later, my family, excluding me and my brother, will be finally sworn in as citizens and will swear allegiance to the Queen. I am writing an exam in Toronto on that day and are unable to attend the ceremony in Ottawa. My brother has yet to write the test that will enable him to be sworn in.
On Canada day every year, they take photos of new citizens as they are sworn in, smiling and proud of their new identities, teary-eyed and multicultural. How many months did they have to wait to finally unravel the bureaucracy that clouds and extends the process to become a citizen? How many car trips did they have to take? How many faxes, phonecalls and letters did it take? How many extra dollars?
Welcome to Canada, suckers.
Bureaucracy everywhere is the biggest rats nest you will ever experience, tied up with red tape, rigid with protocol. Canadian bureaucracy is the complete opposite. It's caracterized by a complete lack of any colour table, except the masking tape that holds it losely together. You cannot contact the citizenship dept. by phone- they cannot help you- the person on the end of the phone has no clue about the subject. If you send a fax, you cannot get a reply. You have to go there in person.
My mother went down early a few mornings ago to avoid the queue and to find out the status of the family's application. When she said she had been waiting two years, some man hopped up and said "Oh, well then I'll get your file then, see what's wrong." And returned to the waiting room in five minutes holding the file and booked the entire family in for a swearing in session two weeks later.
The next day, my brother went in. Nothing. They wouldn't tell him anything. Wouldn't book anything for him or give him any information. My mother says that it may be because he's a young male. My brother is white, very polite, clean-cut and speaks with a BBC british accent. He doesn't look like a criminal.
A year and a bit back, the government introduced the permenent resident card that you had to get in order to return to the country after travelling out of it. They didn't publicize it- we would have never found out except through the grapevine of ex-pats and immigrants that we know. Many permenant residents had a problem- they found that they couldn't get the card in time for the expensive overseas holiday they had booked. The waiting time was four to six months to get the card.
My father and I both needed one of these cards to go on trips to the United States, so we had to apply. Of course, these cards cost money. They are assembled across the country; Ottawa, Frederickton, Vancover- your information criss crosses, seemingly transported, for the time that it takes, by a little man on a tricycle.
When finally your name comes up, after struggles with the correct-size photograph with the right signature on the back and such things, you go in to an office with three or four booths and only one of them open. There is a guard on the door of the office and no sign. It might as well be a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying "beware of the leopard" for the amount of industry and professionalism that the office radiated. We were issued with the card in a matter of minutes.
One thing you have to do to become a citizen is write the test to show you know the basics. You arrive at this same haphazard building where a bunch of immigrants like you wait in a room signposted with a print-out sign stuck on the door with masking tape. When I took the test, I got stuck on one of the questions I didn't know. I took a wild guess. I exited the room with people still writing. Five or ten minutes later, the single woman doing the test comes out- I'm not even sure everyone was done- and announced that everyone had passed. Everyone. Even with my random guess.
Sure, it's possible. But to mark them all in under ten minutes? Even with a machine? And then to have forty people all pass this test, even with questions you HAD to get right? I'd love to know if they actually marked them. But people do fail, so they must look at some of them, at least.
This experience is not only frustrating, it is expensive. We have spent much money on extra things- photos, car journeys into downtown Ottawa etc. It's not a problem for my family, but for others it must be a great problem.
So, two years after applying, I am still in limbo. I am still deprived of a right to vote that should have been granted six months ago. The bureaucracy of Canada is a mess, at least the citizenship department, and if that's any indication of the general state of the bureaucracy then it's no wonder millions of dollars went missing because probably no one even bothered enough.
I sent an e-mail to an government information address asking a straightforward question about parliament protocol last Tuesday. I still haven't heard anything. It's an e-mail address dedicated to this particular website which is concerned only with parliament. I can't imagine there are millions of e-mails being sent to this address. I'm tempted to try again, only this time posing as an eager ten year old child doing a school project, perhaps with highly influential votng parents.
There are not many things that make me angry, but such a political/bureaucratic mess is one of them.
"I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore!" fits my feelings right now quite admirably.
posted
I'm sorry Teshi. In defence of Canada, however, I had a had to deal with difficulty and stupidity getting my exchange student US visa and Social Security Number. (They acutally asked me if I was a terrorist )
I think too many governments have these problems Posts: 944 | Registered: Jun 2001
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Um, why do you think I don't mind leaving the country for good? It IS a mess.
And then there's my rant about Canadian Immigration. The rant that involves me saying that, if Fahim, who is married to a Canadian citizen, wants to go to Canada on a one week holiday, he has to get sponsored by someone in Canada. He can't just go on his own, and being married to me is not enough. Ironically, he qualifies to enter Canada on the point system, not even taking his Canadian wife into consideration.
Easier to qualify as a skilled worker than to qualify for a tourist visa?
posted
Having lived here all my life (indeed, having only been outside the country once for any significant amount of time,) I will eagerly join in the chorus of "Canada sucks!"
I have also considered entering politics to clear some things up, though we would probably be in opposite parties. Posts: 1996 | Registered: Feb 2004
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Where would you recommend moving to? I must admit I'm a die-hard Canadian - loyal to much of what our country stands for... except, of course, beauracracy, corruption, government waste, the judicial system making laws, anal and usless immigration systems (I'm all for easier and and more intelleigent immigration - for example: Let's train professionals from other countries to work here, so we don't have medical doctors and engineers driving cab in Toronto!), an obsolete sentate, an even more obselete party system, the PST, the GST, cultural inferiority complexes, government programs telling me how to raise my kids... huh.
So, uh... I like mountains. And cultural diversity. And public health care and education(when it works). And our flag is nifty, too. Know of anywhere with mountains, a cool flag, decent public education and health care, cultutral diversity and an economy that supports digital artists and interior designers? (My wife and I have talked very briefly about Ireland, Australia, New Zeland, Ghana and/or Rawanda, etc... someplace less... stagnant.)
posted
I personally can't recommend any particular place. Every country has problems, just like every country has its strengths. Question is, what particular package would suit your particular needs? That's the question.
Good luck figuring it out.
As for Fahim and I, we're in Sri Lanka for now, but not necessarily the rest of our lives. I'd like to move around here and there, living a few years in any given country. Experience the culture and history firsthand in a more thorough way than a two week holiday.
Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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I was just saying Canada doesn't have the monopoly on stupid bureaucracies and in my experience many countries have worse.
Posts: 944 | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
But aren't you immigrating from elsewhere in the Commonwealth? Why would you need to swear allegiance to the Queen?
Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000
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posted
It's just what you have to do. We have to swear allegiance to Canada and such along with the Queen, it just happens that its all one package of an oath.
quote: I will eagerly join in the chorus of "Canada sucks!"
I don't think Canada sucks. I think it's a great country with many good things. In the grand scale of things it may be one of the best countries in the world. However, I think that if there's anything wrong with Canada it may be the bureaucracy.
quote: though we would probably be in opposite parties.
Most likely, yes.
quote: many countries have worse.
This is undoubtably true. But! Since Canada doesn't have so many other issues it has less excuses not to try and get the bureaucracy cleaned up.
Posts: 8473 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
I'm not sure politicians are the ones who can clean it up. I think bureaucracy is a government-independent problem. The people who could clean it up are too busy being bureaucrats.
Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000
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posted
I agree with Teshi. Canada is a great country, with many good things, and it is one of the greatest countries in the world and I love it dearly. It also happens to suck.
Posts: 1996 | Registered: Feb 2004
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I'd agree with that assessment as well, though I'm willing to bet that we have very different ideas about solutions. Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000
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posted
I think everyone agrees on that. They act like spoiled little children, every single one of them.
Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000
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We should start a campaign to give the speaker the "power of reasonable ejection". What could you argue against it? "Oh, we like behaving like we never went to kindergarten"?
Posts: 8473 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
Someone recently suggested a House rule making making it obligatory to answer a direct question.
This would only clear up bad behaviour on the part of the ruling party, however, and would do nothing to curb the childish antics that the opposition parties are just as guilty of.
But hey, it's a start. Maybe there could also be a law making it illegal to interrupt when someone is speaking in the House.
Posts: 1996 | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
The US, and I'd bet Canada as well, has long had situations where people may be required to answer (in at least some way) questions, primarily some of those asked in courtrooms.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
This article was in the Ottawa Citizen today (it requires subscription, so here are the juicy highlights) :
quote:Edgy MPs' vitriol poisons Parliament House decorum falls by the wayside as election looms
BY NORMA GREENAWAY
Parliament became a swamp of name calling, finger pointing, guffaws and whispered obscenities yesterday as election-obsessed members of Parlimanet lived down to their reputation as inhabitants of a political zoo.
In between the non-stop heckling during the daily question period, opposition MP's demanded the resignations of Immigration Minister Joe Volpe over alleged "race-baiting," Finance Minister Ralph Goodale over the new budget deal with the NDP, and Prime Minister Paul Martin if a penny of the sponsorship scandal money is found to have landed in his leadership war chest.
Needless to say, the charged demands fell on deaf ears. They were merely part of the public political theatre that has come to characterize the noisy paralysis of the Liberal minority Parliament.
Opposition MPs' questions are laced with vitriol and insults. So, too, are the government's responses. There are no clean questions. There are no clean answers.
At one point, as Mr. Goodale rose to respond to the Tory taunts about the "Liberal lapdog" budget pact with the NDP, Mr. Martin waved him back into his seat and took the question himself. Delighted Tories pointed to the silenced finance minister, and began chanting "down boy, down."
[...]
The partisan bickering reached bitter new lows this week as Liberals and Conservatives swapped allegations of racism and cultural insensitivity over a poster, headlined : "The Libranos," that compared the ruleing Liberals to the Mafia TV show, The Sopranos.
The poster, printed by the right-wing magazine The Western Standard, shows Mr. Martin, former prime minister Jean Chrétien, disgraced former cabinet minister Alfonso Gagliano, and several other Liberals as Soprano characters, comparing the government sponsorship scandal to gangsters on the TV drama.
To Conservative MPs gleefully used the poster as a prop for a photograph. An outraged Mr. Volpe, who is of Italian heritage, shot back: "I think these are a couple of fine upstanding members of the new Conservative Klan," he said. "Notwithstanding that they don't have their cowl and their cape, the (Ku Klux) Klan looks like it's still very much alive."
Mr. Volpe has refused to withdraw or apologize for the comparison. The most he would say after the weekly party caucus meeting yesterday was his language was maybe a "little frank."
In the House of Commons, Edmonton Tory MP Rahim Jaffer of Edmonton accused Mr. Volpe of having a "bad habit of race baiting," and inciting "hatred against Canadians." He demanded Mr. Martin "fire this embarrassment to Canadians."
Mr. Martin responded that the remarks on both sides of the issue were "intemperate and unfortunate." But he then went on to lecture opposition MPs about their "lack of civility" and was drowned out by jeers and guffaws.
Minutes later, an oppositon MP whispered "bastards" as he exited the chamber.
Indeed, the daily show has become so dreadful and unproductive some people who didn't want a snap election are now saying it might be better to pull the plug and put this session out of its misery.
The only civility in the Commons yesterday happened when MPs from all parties appeared genuinely moved by the news Ed Broadbent, the elder statesman of the New Democratic Party, will not seek re-election.
[...]
Earlier in the day, the retiring Mr. Broadbent made it clear he won't miss the acrimony of the question period.
posted
You know, I was thinking about this thread today. I've joked before about considering moving to Canada, and I looked into it half-seriously after the last US election. Y'all have a lot of social stuff that I really like. And I very much enjoyed my visit last month, although if I was seriously considering moving I'd of course want to spend a more substantial amount of time in the country first.
But really, if it came to moving there and becoming a citizen, I think I'd get hung up on the whole swearing allegiance to the Queen thing. I just cannot fathom the idea of becoming a subject of royalty, however much of a formality it may be these days. I'm not sure how much of that is rational and how much is part of the American mindset, but it's really, really strong.
(Yes, as a matter of fact, I did just call the American mindset irrational. What of it?)
Anyway. Just some thoughts. Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
I don't think I necessarily dissed her, ya know? I just don't know that I'm willing to swear allegiance to her, either. Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
ElJay, a lot of Americans just mouth the queen bit, or skip it all together, as do a bunch of other people. It's just a formality, like the "one nation under God" bit of the American oath-thingy.
And the queen's such a lovely old grandmothery lady, it's not like she's breathing down our throats or anything.
posted
I don't think you have to say the pledge of allegiance to become an American citizen. It's more something said in school and at sporting events. But I guess I'm not sure... I'll ask Claudi tonight, she did it recently.
And if I was commiting to become a citizen of a new country, I don't think I could just pick and choose which parts of the deal I wanted to follow. My integrity is picky that way.
digging_holes, why is it cool to have a Queen?
Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
Well, because. She's, like, the queen. And sometimes I honestly wish she still had more control over things, because she's a much more level-headed woman than most of the politicans we have. But then I think of Prince Charles and the fact that he will one day be King, and I'm thankful they're just mascots now.
But still. A Queen is a Queen. She's a symbol. It sure beats swearing allegiance to a coloured piece of cloth. (IMHO, of course).
Posts: 1996 | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:But still. A Queen is a Queen. She's a symbol. It sure beats swearing allegiance to a coloured piece of cloth.
The maple leaf is much more important and meaningful a symbol of Canada than the Queen IMO. I am all for getting rid of the link between the Royal Family and Canada. It is all tradition and nothing more. We need to cut ties.
Posts: 1336 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
We don't swear allegiance to a colored piece of cloth. I checked, here's the oath:
quote: Solemnly, freely, and without any mental reservation, I hereby renounce under oath all allegiance to any foreign state. My fidelity and allegiance from this day forward is to the United States of America. I pledge to support, honor, and be loyal to the United States, its Constitution and laws. Where and if lawfully required, I further commit myself to defend the Constitution and laws of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, either by military, noncombatant, or civilian service. This I do solemnly swear, so help me God.
But really, I'm not trying to turn this into a my oath is better than your oath thing. Or an America vs. Canada thing. Like I said, I admire your country for many reasons. I'm just curious about why the idea causes me such cognitive dissonance. *shrug*
Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
I don't see the point of cutting ties for the sole reason that it's "just tradition." Tradition is a good thing to have. If it's not harmful, there's no reason to get rid of it.
And while I agree that the maple leaf is a better symbol of Canada, the Queen is who we swear allegiance to, not the flag. I can't imagine myself swearing to the flag. I like it, it represents me, but I don't worship it. The Queen is a symbol of our history and our alliance with Britain, and that is definitely not something I wish to get rid of.
Posts: 1996 | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
Be that as it may, dh, I think the queen may be out in our lifetimes. I mean, the fallout from Manley suggesting we cut ties a few years ago wasn't nearly as big as I'd expected it to be. Most of this generation just doesn't self identify with England -- we're Canadian. It started in '82 and I expect we'll be totally severed before too long.
Posts: 3243 | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Me. And all my descendants. I can be King of Canada.
I would require more dictatorial powers, though, but surely that is a small price to pay for having Me as your King.
Posts: 1996 | Registered: Feb 2004
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I have never sworn allegiance to the queen. I don't believe I ever will. I don't know why someone seeking citizenship should be forced to do so. Out of curiosity, when would a native Canadian (in the context of being born here) be expected to swear allegiance? Or is this only something those seeking citizenship must do?
I really do believe that this tradition is harmful. I think that the entire royalty system is inherently harmful. It creates and promotes classism. "Royalty" is a concept that does not jive with my core principles/beliefs/very nature.
Posts: 1336 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
The closest I can remember to swearing allegiance is singing "God Save the Queen" in elementary school. But that practice was done away with before I finished grade 6 and I don't know if it's still sung every morning. Edit: Wait, and there was the "And do my duty to the Queen" line in the Boy Scout pledge.
I see the Queen as being superfluous. Every time she talks about the colonies I can't help but wonder why I should care.
[ May 05, 2005, 04:10 PM: Message edited by: Bob the Lawyer ]
Posts: 3243 | Registered: Apr 2002
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