posted
Personally I would grieve for months. Might stage a demonstration outside his house and know that the end was near. That would be a sad sad day. Thank goodness there doesn’t seem to be any hint of an end!
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It actually wouldn't matter for me that much, OSC's books have gotten progressively worse, lately.
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I would tell my husband, then it would be prettymuch life as usual.
Most of my favorite writers aren't writing anymore, and it doesn't bother me at all.
However, I don't think it's likely to happen any time soon. The man has one more child to put through college, after all. Posts: 1664 | Registered: Apr 2004
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Well, if he quits writing to move to Branson and perform with the Osmonds, I guess I'd wish him good luck and promptly light my hair on fire.
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While I wouldn't say it like Fugu, OSC's latest writing hasn't been the same as the stuff I fell in love with before. I definatly like "early Card" more than "later Card". But hey, that's just me. Posts: 4953 | Registered: Jan 2004
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It's not just you, Telp, but we are striving for politeness here, which is why (I think) fugu was scolded.
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I felt it worth explaining why I wouldn't. I don't consider it a particular indictment; in fact, I predict if I read some of his less commercial fiction of late (which I haven't done so), it would still be pretty good.
His latest "big novels", though, have felt like hollow shells of the earlier works in the same series.
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Why is it socially unacceptable to say, on an author's site, that his later works do not seem as good as his newer ones?
I ask this because my first post EVER on this forum, back in the BML days, was to point out that I thought Alvin Journeyman was an exceptionally weak entry in the series.
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I don't think what I said was particularly impolite, or impolite at all. Worse does not even mean bad; they are still in many ways accomplished.
However, ironically in some correlation with OSC's own positions on criticism, I tend towards the "call it as I see it" camp. I'm not trying to hurt him by saying what I said, nor do I think it will. I'm trying to give an honest evaluation of why I wouldn't care, and my reason for that is, quite simply, that his books have gotten worse (with the implied statement that they've gotten to a point where I don't have a particular urge to read them).
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Tom: Because Kristine doesn't like it. That's really the only reason, but it's their site, so it's enough.
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If Orson Scott Card quit writing, I would assume he was burned out, so I would be happy that he quit.
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Heck, even if I said a book was bad it wouldn't be impolite. An author's personal site in fact seems the ideal place to put criticisms of his works, and I would think he would welcome them, assuming they didn't fall into ranting, trolling, or the like.
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Card has said before that he thinks the people who come to him at a signing and tell him which books they don't like are idiots - why would he want to hear that? That's like telling him which of his children they think is the least attractive. Based on that and what Kristine has said, I think it's safe to say that they don't like it.
[ February 22, 2005, 02:18 PM: Message edited by: Lady Jane ]
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A signing is a place to come and hear the author, and is a place for honoring the author, and is a place to get books signed. The author's attention during the signing is extremely limited and necessarily focused on one person
This forum is pretty much completely different from all those qualities (it may be nice to honor OSC here, but its hardly a purpose) which make a signing a bad place for that sort of thing.
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My comment, to be clear, was because I would not say to someone's face "Hey, I really liked your earlier work, but I think the later stuff is a lot worse." As such, I also wouldn't say it publically somewhere where they or their family has a pretty good chance of reading it.
I have no problem with people disagreeing with OSC's opinions as expressed in his columns. I think he's putting it out there for discussion. (Although I would certainly hope we'd be civil about it.) But what possible good comes from saying you think someone's work is bad? It just seems hurtful to me.
I'd also be okay, I think, with saying you don't like recent stuff as much as older stuff. Maybe that makes me a hypocrite. I think it makes me polite.
-------------
For the record, I'd be sad if OSC stopped writing, but I'd consider it perfectly understandable. If he got to a place where he could comfortably retire and didn't want to write anymore, more power to him. I would, however, selfishly hope that he continued doing cons and book signings on occasion, so I'd still have a chance to meet him.
Edit: This was started before the last several posts came up, and so seems redundant. But I have to work now, so I'll be leaving it at that.
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I imagine (and hope!) that if he retires, he would still do some lighter writing. Maybe he'd go back to writing mosty short stories!
Posts: 1002 | Registered: Feb 2005
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I think I would respect his decision. I would be a little unhappy that the stories he'd started and never finished were never finished, but over time I'd forget.
I must chime in to say that I agree with fugu and Tom. I would have to say that of Card's books that I've read, the ones I liked best were Hart's Hope and Ender's Game. Although, Enchantment does hold a runner-up.
And I think that even though some might think it's rude to offer criticism when in someone's 'living room', it's also important to take into account the fact that an author writes for an audience, his fans being very important in it.
If I am writing for a specific audience, I will always take their comments more into account than I do a professional critic's comments. (This is partly because I'm not a professional writer, but bear with me here.) Because I'm writing for this audience, their comments have more weight, and therefore are valuable to me. In that way, I think that it's important to say what's on your mind about Card's work, wherever you may be.
Also, one must keep in mind the fact that he's a professional, and probably used to hearing such things said about his work. It's his responsibility to use these comments how he sees fit, it's not our responsibility to protect him from them.
That said, if you disagree, please say so! That's useful as well.
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Hmm...I'm not taking this on abstract - whether or not a given author should like hearing criticism of his literary children. Based on what OSC has written about book signings and what Kristine has said about the forum, I feel very confident that they don't like it. It doesn't matter if they should or not.
---
For the topic, I have deliberately proceeded very slowly in my OSC book collecting, anticipating exactly this contingency. He's a generation ahead of me - chances are very high he'll die first. I'm saving his books for when I need something familiar and great and new all at the same time.
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I'd figure he was going to dedicate himself to scripting video games and comic books, two much more enduring forms of expression... Posts: 5663 | Registered: Jun 2000
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I don't know. I think that telling someone you don't like their books while they're taking time out of their lives to do you and other people like you a favor, that's pretty darn inconsiderate.
And it would be rude if someone came here and shouted from the rooftops, "OSC SUUXXXXX!!!!!111" or something like that. But as far as I can tell, the opinions that have been expressed so far are very subjective, and are expressed as such. I'm not saying that I hate what OSC is publishing, because if I did, I wouldn't read it. I'm just saying that I like the older stuff better in some respects. An author's style changing is inevitable, and some people may not like it.
Also, David Bowles, I don't appreciate your flippant treatment of a valuable cultural commodity like comic books. Posts: 4816 | Registered: Apr 2003
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Like Elizabeth, I'd assume that he was burnt out on writing, and would be glad to see him move on to something else that he would find more satisfying.
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Since all of Cards characters go until they die I figure Scott will do the same and the last part of his story will have to be finished by one of his children. Whatever story that would be.
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quote:Based on what OSC has written about book signings and what Kristine has said about the forum, I feel very confident that they don't like it.
You know, that might very well be the cause of the phenomenon I observed.
I think it would be interesting to take an (utterly unscientific) survey of random individuals who had read both Ender's Game and, say, Shadow Puppets, and ask them if they went "wow, that was a wonderful book" after each.
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quote:I ask this because my first post EVER on this forum, back in the BML days, was to point out that I thought Alvin Journeyman was an exceptionally weak entry in the series.
Really? I've liked Prentice Alvin and Alvin Journeyman the best of all the books in that series.
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Prentice Alvin I liked. Alvin Journeyman and Heartfire, not so much. The author's tone changes, he hews closer -- damagingly so, IMO -- to his allegory, he throws in completely suspenseless courtroom drama (and what I thought was a leaden, albeit appreciated, nod to Hatrackers and Tolkien in AJ) headed up by a character which basically has no reason to exist, insofar as Measure does the same thing better as far as the narrative is concerned. And, most importantly, Alvin starts oozing towards the unlikeable.
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Which character should not have existed? Was he unlikable because he was just too darn good? Too moral? It drove me nuts how overly moral he was.
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I think he's talking about Verily. Which makes me sad, because I do like Verily, though I can't argue that he fills the place of Measure in many ways... :/
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I love Verily. It's those irratating female dog like characters that annoy me. Such as the woman Verily and Arthor Sturt liked.
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If you compare the number of people who don't like Card's writing to the number of people in this thread that do, it's no wonder Kristine wonders if anyone would even care to meet him anymore.
Enchantment, Pastwatch, and the Women of Genesis series (Sarah, especially) are as great as anything written twenty years ago.
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I've heard it said that criticism from sharp readers who don't give a hecky-darn about your feelings is the writer's greatest ally. I tend to believe it, from personal experience, but as with anything, individuals' milage may vary.
I mean, look at George Lucas and Phantom Menace. Watch some of the DVD extras -- you can actually see it in people's body language around him when he makes a bad decision, but nobody says it, because he's GEORGE LUCAS.
Not that I think this forum is the place for people to dissect OSC's writing in a very critical way. However, it would be disingenuous of me to say that I'd tear my hair and roll in ashes if he decided to retire. I wouldn't be happy about never getting to read something new of his ever again, but I would wish him well.
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I just love the idea that, say, fugu is presenting - the reason his writing style has changed is because he ignores and rolls his eyes at the people who say "You suck now."
[ February 22, 2005, 05:39 PM: Message edited by: Lady Jane ]
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I love Pastwatch. I've always kinda hoped he would do the same story with different pivot points, imagining ways to change other historical events and what the consequences would be. I know it won't happen, because the set-up would have to be the same and I don't know how you could pull that off, but I'd love to see what other alternate histories he could come up with.
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quote:Since all of Cards characters go until they die I figure Scott will do the same and the last part of his story will have to be finished by one of his children.
Keep dreaming, Jay
Personally, assuming that an end to the novel-writing meant a change in his career, rather than an utter lack of income, incapacitation, or death, I'd consider it a good thing. Card thrives on new challenges, and burns out on things easily. Honestly, I think he'd be a lot happier if he got a chance to really try something new.
Why do you think he's spent so much time and money on theater/film/political projects? I think he's really sick of writing books.
(He hasn't said any of this to me personally. It's just what I think I've picked up by observation over the years.)
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It's not like i think he sucks. It's just he's gotten so heavy handedly conservative in his prose. I was thinking about this on my way home. It's annoying even when liberals do it. What turned me off was the speech Anton made in Shadow Puppets. After that, I couldn't really finish the book, especially knowing how miserable that arrangement makes so many people.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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Maybe it's the blanket statements that are irritating me. To say that it's worse now is to ignore those books I mentioned before - and the Card book I dislike the most and refuse to own was written fairly early. Saying it's gone from Great to Bad is simplistic, on top of being hurtful.
Posts: 1163 | Registered: Jan 2005
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If he stops writing then I will begin my reign as Mike Scott Card..........no one will know the difference Posts: 6026 | Registered: Dec 2004
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