a) if there are any good english translations? b) if there are any good english translations that I might be able to find? c) if there are any good english translations that I might be able to find and which would not cost me a zillion dollars? Like, maybe in a cheap paperback edition?
Just curious. I figure there isn't, or I would have found it already... but you never know.
Posts: 609 | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
Just the translation will do you little good. If you want to understand, you'll need a solid understanding of the principles of Jewish law along with a lot of time to spend thinking...
Posts: 3060 | Registered: Nov 2003
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Also, if you want to save some money and you're just curious about certain things you can buy only the tractate of the subject you are interested in.
Posts: 853 | Registered: Feb 2004
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The Talmud was intended to be taught orally, and was only written down to prevent it being lost. However, it still can only really be learned from a good teacher -- self-study won't get you very far.
dh, I can try to find a beginners' Talmud class in your area if you're interested. Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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Actually, I would be interested in a class. The problem is, I have little to no time to devote to it at this time. But, yes, I have heard that it is very hard to understand the Talmud...
I've looked online for a Jewish bookstore in Ottawa, but I can't find one. I know there is a jewish community, and at least one synagogue, but I guess it must not be big enough to support its own bookstore.
I have yet to check the various university libraries in the area...
Posts: 609 | Registered: Oct 2004
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I'll tell you what. Steinsaltz is superb. He took the originl G'mara and put punctuation, so reading 1 Daf per day is easy. In addition Steinzaltz wrote his own explanation and Hebrew translation.
ArtScroll have brilliant translations, I read some of heir Siddurim.
The issue is whether or not you are acquainted with Hebrew script or not. I suggest before you dive into the G'marah, you get your background about the time, the people and the Jewish Law.
Trust me, as a Jew who studies in the top-religious-high-school in Jerusalem and who knows the G'marrah the hard way (no bragging, it's just one thing I learned well. The hard way, of course), not that I'm too happy with it - the G'marah's syntax is remarkably complex and it jumps from point to point without solving old issues. It's packed with errors (it happens, a 1500 year old book in 2 versions), proofing eccentricities and contradictions both on itself and The Bible. The G'maras were sometimes illegible and many translations are still doubtful.
Know what you're doing. The G'marah is not a book you read for the fun of the contet. It's a book of thought, and you need to prepare for it. I still struggle after 4 years.
For additional reference e-mail me (jm5.7k@gmail.com).
Jonny
P.S. Have a nice time with the Talmud. (Babylonian. Don't go to the Jeruselamite until you're fluent in Aramaic and Hebrew and you finished the Babylonian.)
Posts: 2978 | Registered: Oct 2004
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Consider, for a moment, that the reason Artscroll's translation is still incomplete (and actually lagging a bit behind where they planned, I think) is the incredible number of person-hours it takes for each volume. The reason why the price per volume is as LOW as it is, is due to the project being partially sponsored by various donors.
Certainly no one is going to take on a task of this magnitude for free. Not unless they saw it as some great and necessary thing. But since it would actually make it just that much easier for people (certain websites that I absolutely refuse to link to come to mind) to misquote, misunderstand, take things out of context . . .
I repeat: the Talmud is NOT MEANT to be learned alone. Attempting to do so is a great way to get confused -- even if you are fluent in Aramaic and Hebrew.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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Chad, if you want Rodkinson's translation, it is available online. Link
It is, however, a pick-and-choose translation, edited deliberately by the translator (back in 1903, which is why it's available, having entered the public domain). A scholar he may have been, but a Talmud scholar he was not. It is incredibly inaccurate, and leaves out huge chunks -- even of the third of the Talmud he got through.
In many ways, it is worse than nothing.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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Now I'm scared. I was, actually, just wanting to read it for curiosity's sake. Maybe I'll put off my quest until I actually have time to study it in-depth... I don't have the slightest notion of Hebrew or Aramaic, either the script or spoken languages. Which is why I wanted a good english translation...
Aren't there any Jews who don't speak Hebrew? (Not that I would mind this as an excuse to learn Hebrew, of course. )
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And, as an added bonus, while finding those (and I know there is another one, but I couldn't find it), I found a site that helped me finally install an electronic Hebrew keyboard! YES!
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Hee hee! We have it set up (on one computer) this way at work, but I had been (mistakenly) told that it required a special program. On Monday, I can set it up on the other work computers too.
quote: Wow, that is so cool! Now if only I knew what those cool little squiggles meant!
*laughing hard* I wrote "zeh" (that [is]) "cooool" (not an actual Hebrew word ).
quote: Woah. I never realized that Windows XP could show Hebrew by default.
I guess in the US or Canada you rarely get them; but in Israel EVERYTHING is Hebrew.
Misquoting? I had problems understanding Raba (can't remember) concerning a different version between Matzikin and Massikin. The phonetics today are significant but 1500 years ago, the letters were very similar. Who would know that mispronounced/various bad quoting?
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Having looked over the site (and the credentials of some of the people associated with it), it looks like "liberal" means Reform.
I find much of the site in strong disagreement with my beliefs. From things as basic as who wrote the Torah and the primary reason to learn Talmud. *shrug* But it's an interesting site, if not one that I would recommend.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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I have no idea what a "liberal" jew means. It's how she describes herself so that's what I call her... I figure she's a better person then me to put a label on her beliefs Posts: 944 | Registered: Jun 2001
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Jaiden, I wasn't trying to define your friend -- I don't even know her! But the site you linked to also referred to itself as "liberal," and gave enough information that I felt comfortable defining the way they seemed to be using the word.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote:Having looked over the site (and the credentials of some of the people associated with it), it looks like "liberal" means Reform.
I don't think it's strictly a Reform site. Although a lot of the people associated with it are Reform Jews, I did see a Reconstructionist Rabbi and a Conservative Rabbi also listed on the site.
I think they are using the word "liberal" to avoid being pigeon-holed, but at the same time, they haven't really defined, to my satisfaction at any rate, what they are trying to represent.
quote:But the site you linked to also referred to itself as "liberal,"
Yes, this is why I questioned the use of the word "liberal" also.
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