I'm sorry if this has been answered in another topic. I found the death of Graff contradictory in Ender in Exile. In Shadow of the Hegemon, Chapter 26 intro, Peter writes to Valentine
quote: I knew Hyrum Graff and Mazer Rackham very well before they died.
Then, in Ender in Exile, Chapter 21 intro, Graff emails Ender
quote:The passing of your brother must have come as a surprise
. I know OSC states in the afterword that Chapter 15 of EG is incorrect, but he says nothing about contradictions with Shadow of the Hegemon. Can someone help me clarify this?
Posted by BryanP (Member # 7772) on :
I don't think it needs clarification, you seem to have spotted a mistake for correction in future editions of... one of those books.
Posted by BandoCommando (Member # 7746) on :
It's entirely possible that Peter *thought* Graff was dead when we was, in fact, merely living in quiet retirement or under stasis.
Posted by Josh Cooper (Member # 11533) on :
quote:Originally posted by BandoCommando: It's entirely possible that Peter *thought* Graff was dead when we was, in fact, merely living in quiet retirement or under stasis.
That's a great spin. Gotta love the endless list of errors people find. I prefer to think of Graff as alive though. Graff is to Ender's Game like God is to the Bible. He just has to be there. Then when the whole thing came up with stasis, it makes it seem like he's not going to die. Then he retires?! No, I'd actually like to see Graff have a role in the book after Children of the Mind. Graff's the man!
Posted by Jeorge (Member # 11524) on :
One problem with that idea is that, because of stasis, Graff would have been in office long after Peter was dead (right?) Considering he was a very public and well known high ranking official, and Peter was hegemon, could Peter have possibly not known he was still around?
Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
I brought this up even before EiE was officially released. OSC himself responded by saying something to the effect of "Peter didn't necessary know he was still alive." It'd be easy to assume otherwise.
Posted by theinvid (Member # 11912) on :
there are incosistencies, that's true. This is one of them.
I tend to do what most readers do and just overlook them because it doesn't truly hurt my enjoyment of the book. Don't get me wrong, it sure would be nice to have everything fit perfectly in the Enderverse but alas I still love each book for different reasons and enjoy them despite their 'flaws'.
Posted by adenam (Member # 11902) on :
quote:Graff is to Ender's Game like God is to the Bible
I prefer to think of him as a twisted version of Mr. Feeny from the show Boy Meets World
Posted by Josh Cooper (Member # 11533) on :
quote:Originally posted by adenam:
quote:Graff is to Ender's Game like God is to the Bible
I prefer to think of him as a twisted version of Mr. Feeny from the show Boy Meets World
Mr. Feeny? I thought he was the intimidating principal or teacher. It's been a long time since I watched it, but I don't think of Graff as all that scary. There were some references though to Graff and Rackham "playing God" in the Shadow books.
Posted by Seatarsprayan (Member # 7634) on :
"We lied."
Posted by Josh Cooper (Member # 11533) on :
quote:Originally posted by Seatarsprayan: "We lied."
Nice. And depending on who the We is, it's quite possible. Granted, Graff stopped lying after the war ended, but Ender and Bean saw him as a lying manipulator regardless of weither there was a war or not. Graff uses lies and truth the same way Peter uses his resources to rule the world.
Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
quote:Originally posted by adenam:
quote:Graff is to Ender's Game like God is to the Bible
I prefer to think of him as a twisted version of Mr. Feeny from the show Boy Meets World
And I think of Mr. Feeny as a puffy old version of John Adams from 1776!
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
quote:Originally posted by Josh Cooper:
quote:Originally posted by adenam:
quote:Graff is to Ender's Game like God is to the Bible
I prefer to think of him as a twisted version of Mr. Feeny from the show Boy Meets World
Mr. Feeny? I thought he was the intimidating principal or teacher. It's been a long time since I watched it, but I don't think of Graff as all that scary. There were some references though to Graff and Rackham "playing God" in the Shadow books.
I like the Feeny comparison. Always there, always providing guidance. I do think Graff is a lot scarier than Feeny. Feeny was withering, but he'd do it to your face. Graff would give your mother cancer and spit in your hamburger without telling you, if he thought it was the right thing to do.
Posted by Leonide (Member # 4157) on :
quote:Graff would give your mother cancer and spit in your hamburger without telling you, if he thought it was the right thing to do.
Posted by adenam (Member # 11902) on :
Don't forget, Feeny also shows up when he's least expected, shadows everyone through their lives, and always comes out right.
Posted by Josh Cooper (Member # 11533) on :
I really don't remember enough of Feeny to say much about him, but I wouldn't call Graff scary any more than you would call God scary. He does things according to his own agenda and what he thinks is right. That's not much more than anyone can do but I believe he takes the best course of action in any case. The Graff works in mysterious ways. It may seem bad or scary, but I'd trust Graff to bring about the best outcome. As for giving you mother cancer, I think he draws the line somewhere. But then again, if it means the salvation of the human race...
Posted by adenam (Member # 11902) on :
quote:The Graff works in mysterious ways
best description ever Posted by Marek (Member # 5404) on :
quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade:
quote:Originally posted by adenam:
quote:Graff is to Ender's Game like God is to the Bible
I prefer to think of him as a twisted version of Mr. Feeny from the show Boy Meets World
And I think of Mr. Feeny as a puffy old version of John Adams from 1776!
Well Graff does seem to be disliked (what with the court martial and all) but not all that obnoxious.
Posted by adenam (Member # 11902) on :
quote:And I think of Mr. Feeny as a puffy old version of John Adams from 1776! --------------------------------------------------
Well Graff does seem to be disliked (what with the court martial and all) but not all that obnoxious
All we need now is for him to break out in song to explain his agenda. I really think the Ender's Game movie shold be a musical.
Posted by scifibum (Member # 7625) on :
"I really don't remember enough of Feeny to say much about him, but I wouldn't call Graff scary any more than you would call God scary."
I think God can be extremely scary.
Posted by Josh Cooper (Member # 11533) on :
quote:I really think the Ender's Game movie shold be a musical.
A musical?! Now that WOULD make Graff scary. May Card never get that idea into his head! Might as well make Ender 16 and turn it into some boy meets girl story.
Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
quote:Originally posted by adenam: I really think the Ender's Game movie should be a musical.
Yes!!!
. . . I think we had a thread like that . . .
Posted by cynb (Member # 11922) on :
Here is my problem with Graff. We never learn his age, but in First meetings, the first time we meet Enders Dad, John Paul, he is almost 5 and Graff is there testing him for Battle School, an adult. When John Paul refuses to go to Battle School, it is implied that Graff decides to manipulate his life in hopes of genius children. So for Graff to be an adult when John Paul was a child and outlive 80 yr old Peter, without star flight, he would have to be 120ish at the low end.
Posted by Josh Cooper (Member # 11533) on :
Well that depends on how you read it. In on book Peter says he outlived Graff and Rackham. Then in Ender in Exile, it shows Graff as being still alive, but that's with stasis. So I don't really see what the problem is...
Posted by adenam (Member # 11902) on :
Since Graff is god it means he is ageless/above time, so he doesn't have a real age ever and will exist indefinatly.
Posted by Josh Cooper (Member # 11533) on :
quote:Originally posted by adenam: Since Graff is god it means he is ageless/above time, so he doesn't have a real age ever and will exist indefinatly.
Graff did choose the boy that grew up to be the salvation of humanity... He actually chose the the father who would give birth to him as well when John Paul was a child. Much like God chose Mary to give birth to Jesus. Then if you use Han Fei-tzu's logic, stasis would be the tool that the gods to work their will and keep the god Graff alive.
Ya know, it does make since that Graff is believed to die in the origional shadow series. Humanity believed that Ender was dead 3000 years later even though there was no evidence to support that.
Posted by Pennie-Lain (Member # 11932) on :
That's because people are MEANT to die, but in a crazy world like Enderverse they don't have to ^___^ What I find odd is that 3000 years later more people didn't do that
Posted by Josh Cooper (Member # 11533) on :
Yes, one would think that the average life would last longer in the future. I've heard that people still alive in 2020 I think, should be able to live to be 150 with modern science.
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