quote:

---

Originally posted by Trent Destian:
Altáriël of Dorthonion did. There's a thread discussing it in the other forum.

---

That was for the Books, Film, Food and Culture side, this is for the OSC side. We've bugged him about it and been varyingly (sp?) patient/impatient and now it's here. If there were no thread on the OSC side of the river about the announcement on the Hatrack front page it would be remiss.

I'm so excited! And I just can't hide it!

[Edited for diction]

[ August 20, 2008, 03:48 PM: Message edited by: vonk ]
 

---

Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
 
Has it occurred to anyone that this book, with its two conflicting release dates, will either fall 3 days before or a week after the presidential election?

Could OSC or somebody gotten it bumped from november 4th for this reason? Maybe he wants it out before, maybe after, or am I just seeing dragons?

One thing I would *really* find disappointing, would be any direct reference to current events in the book, even in the afterword. I'm reminded of reading, I think it might have been Ender's Shadow, and the afterword having some snipe about "Monica's dress" or something, and just sitting there thinking "dude, for serious?"

This could be OSC's great return to the series that starts it all, so I hope it's good, and a success.
 

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Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
 
Somehow I really don't think that the release date and the election have anything to do with each other. Let's try not to assume that OSC has a political agenda behind everything he does these days.
 

---

Posted by kacard (Member # 200) on :
 
Nobody ever consults us about release dates. The only one I've ever heard is November 11th. But hey, it's cool that is Veterans Day -- still, no political agenda in that. It only means the publisher wants some good pre-Christmas sales -- and it's a Tuesday.
 

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Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
 
But it's conceivable that they *don't* want to release it on election day because that would interfere with marketing right? That was my initial thought, not really that it was some kind of conspiracy. If I were publishing a book though, I'd avoid that day.
 

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Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
 
I don't really see how it would interfere. In fact, I'd think that when you go out to vote that'd be a convenient time to swing by the local bookstore as well.

Scheduling a book signing event on that day might not be a great idea though.
 

---

Posted by Brett Moan (Member # 11641) on :
 
I'm glad that there's nothing political behind the release date. As far as the references to current events they don't bother me.
 

---

Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by neo-dragon:
I don't really see how it would interfere. In fact, I'd think that when you go out to vote that'd be a convenient time to swing by the local bookstore as well.

Scheduling a book signing event on that day might not be a great idea though.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Orincoro:
Well, neo-dragon, remind me to hire you at my PR firm. You've got an eye for the business.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by docmagik:
Actually, it takes place between the second-to-last and last chapters of Enders Game.

SPOILERS FOR ENDER'S GAME BELOW!

It takes place after the end of the Bugger War, but before the Hive Queen is discovered.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by neo-dragon:
I've never heard about line-ups outside of stores (not counting if OSC is there signing) or tv coverage. So I wouldn't expect election coverage to cut in on its advertising anyway.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Orincoro:
The public focus, as I said, is just not on anything else on election day. Is that impossible to grasp?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by TomDavidson:
I'm so confused, Orincoro. Do you operate in a universe where people are ever aware of typical science-fiction releases?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Orincoro:

quote:

---

Originally posted by docmagik:
Actually, it takes place between the second-to-last and last chapters of Enders Game.

SPOILERS FOR ENDER'S GAME BELOW!

It takes place after the end of the Bugger War, but before the Hive Queen is discovered.

---

That wasn't my understanding from what I've read. Where did you get that piece of info?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Orincoro:

quote:

---

Originally posted by TomDavidson:
I'm so confused, Orincoro. Do you operate in a universe where people are ever aware of typical science-fiction releases?

---

No, but if I were publishing sci-fi books, I would want to change that.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by El JT de Spang:
So, your point is that they should shift the publication date for this book because, in the parallel universe where you own a sci-fi publishing company, it's bad business to counter-program a presidential election?

Wow.

---

quote:

---

I just want to address some of the tags that have been placed on this product, in particular, terms such as "homophobe" and "bigot". Regardless of what one thinks of Card's religious and political views, anyone who has actually read his FICTION (especially the Ender series) knows that it is not hate literature. On the contrary, works such as "Ender's Game" and "Speaker for the Dead" are known for their emphasis on themes of understanding and empathy.

I'm not here to defend or even discuss Card's personal views. If anyone wants to apply labels to the man that's their business. But applying those labels to his works of fiction is misleading to potential readers. It doesn't allow the works to be judged on their own merits, but rather preconceptions of the author. That is prejudice in itself. Anyone who opens an Ender novel looking for hate literature will be sorely disappointed. Then again, if they actually read it they may learn something of true value.

---

Unfortunately I learned that I can't post it because I've never ordered anything from amazon.com (only .ca, since I'm Canadian), but I think that it needs to be said.

So... um... anyone want to post it (or something to that effect) for me?
 

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Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
 
well, there has been some actual critical work done that suggests very strongly that OSC's writing is expressive of homophobic and misogynistic beliefs. I think that can be read into his books, and the amazon community may have a right to say that. I don't know their TOS.
 

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Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
 
Neo-dragon:

Done.
 

---

Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
 
I sent feedback concerning the tags.

Amazon can choose to allow them or not. But they'll stop being my default bookstore if I have to see crap like that in my book browsing.
 

---

Posted by Bokonon (Member # 480) on :
 
I'm still wondering if I get any recognition for coming up with the name (sorta), back in the mega-thread...

-Bok
 

---

Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Scott R:
Neo-dragon:

Done.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Orincoro:

quote:

---

Originally posted by El JT de Spang:
So, your point is that they should shift the publication date for this book because, in the parallel universe where you own a sci-fi publishing company, it's bad business to counter-program a presidential election?

Wow.

---

Yeah that's exactly what I said. Go suck eggs, please.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Orincoro:
I'm not going to entertain your sarcastic, pointless question.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by rivka:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Orincoro:
I'm not going to entertain your sarcastic, pointless question.

---

The irony!

---

Just found a signature for his other forums.
 

---

Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
 
OSC reads from "Ender in Exile".

And forgive my nitpicking, but according to EG wasn't Peter over 70 years old when he spoke to Ender via ansible, not "nearly 60"? Or is the line supposed to say that "he's aged nearly 60 years" rather than that he's "at nearly 60 years of age."

[ September 05, 2008, 02:43 AM: Message edited by: neo-dragon ]
 

---

Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
 
... The part that says originally posted by Orincoro I read as "Orincoro posted by Orincoro" ...
 

---

Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
 
What, no one has any thoughts on the excerpt?
 

---

Posted by Lanfear (Member # 7776) on :
 
I don't like the excerpt.

I don't remember Ender talking like that in Ender's Game. I just reread Speaker and it feels like this is just foreshadowing for a book he's already written.

Obviously that's just from the excerpt.
 

---

Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
 
I thought that was kinda the point of that passage; to foreshadow. This book partially bridges the gap between EG and SftD, and that passage is from near the end, so I think that it's meant to lead into it a bit.
 

---

Posted by Lanfear (Member # 7776) on :
 
It just seemed... over the top.
Like the foreshadowing would make sense if SftD hadn't been written yet.
 

---

Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
 
I see what you mean, but also keep in mind that this book is being marketed as a "direct sequel to Ender's Game". I think it's meant to attract readers who may have only read EG and haven't yet picked up SftD.

Anyway, I find it interesting that Peter was able to tell that Ender was the Speaker for the Dead but Graff is apparently clueless. And speaking of Graff, he's gotta be pushing at least 100 years old by the time Ender and Val arrive at the colony.
 

---

Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
 
Wait a second... I knew there was something odd about Graff being alive:

In the email from Peter to Val at the start of the last chapter of SotG, Peter says, "I knew Hyrum Graff and Mazer Rackham very well before they died, and you treated them with absolute fairness."

This is before Ender and Peter began speaking via ansible. Seems like something of a minor glitch...
 

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Posted by Eden (Member # 11742) on :
 
I just discovered, that a new book following the quadrilogy will be published soon, which is the reason I registered... I don't want to be suprised by something like this again

I have a very intimate relation to the Ender and the Shadow series, since they are the reason I learned English some years ago. I am german and wanted to read and understand the books, that hasn't been published in german yet.

The meaning of this post: Hello everyone
 

---

Posted by BlackBlade (Member # 8376) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Eden:
I just discovered, that a new book following the quadrilogy will be published soon, which is the reason I registered... I don't want to be suprised by something like this again

I have a very intimate relation to the Ender and the Shadow series, since they are the reason I learned English some years ago. I am german and wanted to read and understand the books, that hasn't been published in german yet.

The meaning of this post: Hello everyone

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by neo-dragon:


This is before Ender and Peter began speaking via ansible. Seems like something of a minor glitch...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Orincoro:

quote:

---

Originally posted by neo-dragon:


This is before Ender and Peter began speaking via ansible. Seems like something of a minor glitch...

---

I wonder why fact-checkers don't catch some of these basic inconsistencies... or maybe OSC just doesn't find them very important?

---

We are his fact-checkers ! Well, sometimes, anyway.
 

---

Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
 
I wonder if anything can be done about it, or if it's too late and/or too insignificant to bother. Peter's age can be changed with a single word, but I don't know about Graff being alive...
 

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Posted by Nick (Member # 4311) on :
 
Graff died? I don't remember. . .
 

---

Posted by Xann. (Member # 11482) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by neo-dragon:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Orincoro:

quote:

---

Originally posted by neo-dragon:


This is before Ender and Peter began speaking via ansible. Seems like something of a minor glitch...

---

I wonder why fact-checkers don't catch some of these basic inconsistencies... or maybe OSC just doesn't find them very important?

---

We are his fact-checkers ! Well, sometimes, anyway.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nick:
Graff died? I don't remember. . .

---

quote:

---

I agree we should all blame neo-draon for all inconsistencies in OSC's books.

---

Well, maybe if he would send me early manuscripts to proofread I could be of more help. *hint* *hint*, *nudge* *nudge*
 

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Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
 
Well, Graff must be very old indeed. Considering that he was around 30 in "The Polish Boy," his first appearance chronologically being either "Mazer in Prison," or "Polish Boy," I'll do a little math.

30 Polish Boy
+32 years for Peter to grow up, get married at 22, and have ender last, and for Ender to reach age 6
+4 years for the events of Ender's Game, until Ender leaves for Rove (or Shakespeare Colony)
+50 years for Ender to reach Rove
+10 or more years for Ender to grow to age 18, write the HQ, and have it published and become known on Earth (this would make Peter's age rougly consistent with 70 at the end of EG)

That would make Graff rougly 126 years old at the time of the supposed emails, making him older than any human of our time has ever lived by 4 years. Given that by all accounts he did not always lead a healthy lifestyle, this seems particularly unlikely, unless anti-geron technology has advanced to the point of extending the maximum lifespan of humans (roughly 120 years). Given that Peter is dying "of a failing heart" at only 70 or 80 years of age at this time, in the late 23rd century (is that right?), that seems unlikely.

You could possibly subtract a few years from his age in Polish boy, and a few more from the time between Polish boy and EG, but not that many. You'd be hard pressed to explain his age as anywhere under 115. No way he could be less than 100, unless late in life, he takes a relativistic journey.

A possible loophole would be if Graff left for a colony world after the events of Shadow Giant, and died in between the death of Peter, and the subsequent publication of HQH, which is detailed in Giant. This would make his being alive possible, but he would likely not be on Earth, when contacted by Ender in EE. Remember, following Giant, it is possible to reach colony worlds without non-relative travel time lag for acceleration, as gravity compensation was introduced late in the book.

[ September 10, 2008, 08:25 PM: Message edited by: Orincoro ]
 

---

Posted by Orson Scott Card (Member # 209) on :
 
Peter doesn't always know everything <grin>.

I will not be doing a signing tour. The tours wreck my health and tear huge chunks out of my life. I need to be home with my family, writing my books, and playing videogames, as God intended. (That's just so you won't forget what a zealot I am.)

Most of Ender in Exile does indeed take place between the last two chapters of Ender's Game. And I did contradict the scene between Ender and Valentine from Ender's Game, where they first meet after the war. I am rewriting that scene and future versions of Ender's Game will have the new version. The original scene was a throwaway; the new one will meet the needs of Exile.

Eden, thanks for learning English to read my books. I'd love to have them all published in German, but ... that's not up to me <grin>.

As for marketing books - surveys done for the publishing industry make it plain that the only two elements important to sales of a fiction book are the book cover and word of mouth. Advertising only affects the SPEED of sales when an audience already exists for it - good for making the lists, but not much else. Being on a list does have a log-rolling effect, but it's not huge; books that make the list tend to stay on the list for the same reasons that got them there in the first place - i.e., people like the book.

Pub date IS important. (And yes, it's Nov. 11, a Tuesday, as stated.) The election isn't even a factor in the release date - do you think there's anybody who says, "I will NOT go to the bookstore today, it's election day!"

But things like Christmas and New Years and Summer affect sales of certain kinds of books. Lots of books are launched during the Christmas buying frenzy of the leadin to summer - but the Christmas launches are books that people are likely to give as gifts (i.e., emotional feel-good books or books by well-known authors that might be bought as gifts for known fans of the books); the summer launches are big beach-reading books.

Science fiction is rarely in either category, though obviously my publisher things Ender in Exile might well be given as a gift - hardcover as a Christmas present to somebody who would otherwise wait for the paperback. My publisher also thinks that Ender in Exile has legs that will allow it to stand up in competition with a lot of big-name titles. I worry that this might keep EinE from getting on any lists.

Best chance for a sci-fi book to hit the lists is at the end of summer and in January, where the New Year's slump hits the book industry. Then again, all the things that make those slump seasons will work against the sci-fi book, too.

The fact is, it's all a crapshoot. I think this is one of the best books I've ever written ... but I've thought that before about books that sold only moderately. Who knows?

all I can do is tell you that I'm really proud of the book, and that even though it's so intimately related to Ender's Game, you don't have to have read (or recently re-read) Ender's Game in order to receive EinE.
 

---

Posted by Trent Destian (Member # 11653) on :
 
So I should do my best to maintain my current copy of Ender's Game, beacuse if I want to get a new copy the ending will be altered. Was the scene unsatisfactory before and now it is better, or is the change purely for the sequel sake?

Remastered version "Peter shot first!"


Additionally, thanks for clearing up the confusion.
 

---

Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Orson Scott Card:

Most of Ender in Exile does indeed take place between the last two chapters of Ender's Game. And I did contradict the scene between Ender and Valentine from Ender's Game, where they first meet after the war. I am rewriting that scene and future versions of Ender's Game will have the new version. The original scene was a throwaway; the new one will meet the needs of Exile.

---

Whoa there George Lucas! Why not just enhance all the crowd scenes in your old books with cumputer generated dialogue? HMMM????

ENDER SHOT FIRST!
 

---

Posted by DDDaysh (Member # 9499) on :
 
Ok, come on guys. That scene between Ender and Val never really "worked" with any of the sequels. It's been contradicted in a ton of places in both the Shadow books and the "Adult Ender" books. At least he's going to rewrite a new scene and not just be like "ok, forget that part". I'm actually really eager to read the new scene. It was one of the most awkward parts of the whole original book, one of the ones that felt the least natural. I can't believe I'm going to do this, but I think I'll actually be purchasing a THIRD copy of Ender's Game.
 

---

Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
 
He posted.

Wait no hello for the T!!!!!! Argh.

I will definetely be purchasing a sixth copy then. (wow thats alot.)
 

---

Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
 
Wouldn't it be perfect marketing if the release of this new edition of Ender's Game coincided with the release of the movie? (whenever that will be)
 

---

Posted by DDDaysh (Member # 9499) on :
 
I'd rather not wait for the movie...
 

---

Posted by Nick (Member # 4311) on :
 
Agreed. I'm starting to wonder if the movie will ever be made. Maybe Ender's Game just isn't meant for the big screen.
 

---

Posted by sylvrdragon (Member # 3332) on :
 

quote:

---

I can't believe I'm going to do this, but I think I'll actually be purchasing a THIRD copy of Ender's Game.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Orson Scott Card:
I need to be home with my family, writing my books, and playing videogames, as God intended. (That's just so you won't forget what a zealot I am.)

---

 

---

Posted by vonk (Member # 9027) on :
 
I really like the excerpt. I kept trying to gleen information about what happens in the rest of the book. The excerpt mostly just refers to things we already know, but it sounds like it has all of the analysis of the human condition that I love so much in this series. I don't think I'll be able to wait for someone to get it for me for Christmas. And if OSC says it's his best book, that has me doubly excited.

Is EiE supposed to deal more with the conditions on Earth at the time or Ender's new colony?
 

---

Posted by C3PO the Dragon Slayer (Member # 10416) on :
 
Stilson: Going somewhere, Third?

Ender: Yes, as a matter of fact, I was just going to see the boss. Tell Graff I got his monitor.

Stilson: It's too late. You should have backed out when you had the chance. Graff's put a rank on your brain so high, every IF agent in the Hegemony will be looking for you. I'm lucky I found you first.

Ender: Yeah, but this time I've got the monitor out.

Stilson: If you give it to me, I might forget I found you.

Ender: I don't have it WITH me... tell Graff...

Stilson: Graff is through with you. He has no time for Wiggins who drop their shipments at the first sign of their older brother.

Ender: Even I get bored sometimes. You think I had a choice?

Stilson: You can tell that to Graff. He may only take your sister.

Ender: Over my dead body.

Stilson: That's the idea. I've been looking forward to killing a Third for some time.

Ender: I'll bet you have.

Stilson aims a punch at Ender's face, going for a knockout, but misses horribly. Ender doesn't even flinch. He just kills Stilson.

Ender: (to teacher who stumbles upon the scene, who stares at Stilson's dead body) Sorry about the mess. (tosses a five-dollar coin to the teacher) Exuent.
 

---

Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
 
I'm pretty sure it's the latter since Ender is the central character.
 

---

Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
 
Publishers Weekly blurb

quote:

---

Set between Card's Hugo and Nebula-winning Ender's Game(1985) and Speaker for the Dead(1986), this philosophical novel covers familiar events, but puts new emphasis on their ethical ramifications. In the wake of his victory over the alien Formics, 12-year-old military genius Ender Wiggins is hailed as a hero, but governments opposed to the International Fleet, which trained him, intend to portray him as a monster. Ender winds up as titular governor of one of the new human colonies, where he struggles to adapt to civilian life and ponders his role in the deaths of thousands of humans and an entire alien species. His agonized musings aren't always sophisticated but possess a certain gravitas. Fans will find this offering illuminating, and it's also accessible to thoughtful readers new to the series.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by C3PO the Dragon Slayer:
Stilson aims a punch at Ender's face, going for a knockout, but misses horribly. Ender doesn't even flinch. He just kills Stilson.

---

That's sacrilege. All purists know Ender punched first.
 

---

Posted by C3PO the Dragon Slayer (Member # 10416) on :
 
Well, that's the Special Edition that Stilson shot first.

But yes, the purist original has Ender shoot first.
 

---

Posted by All4Nothing (Member # 11601) on :
 
Been awhile since I posted here, and very few times at that. I do come and read though, and often. I'll never leave this forum now that I'm here. I've been coming here for many years...just never signed up till last year

Anyways, I'm still extremely excited to get this book in hand then in head. And this topic has inspired me to reread EG for about the fiftieth time..lol. Since I can't remember exactly the ending scene between Ender and Val, I feel it's my duty to myself to refresh my memory.

Hope everyone has been well in my abscence.
 

---

Posted by All4Nothing (Member # 11601) on :
 
Ok...so I got through EG again. Seems to get faster everytime...maybe it's just me. I can't listen to the excerpt from EiE due to the fact that this computer doesn't have sound, so I'm kinda in the dark about it. This Stilson thing keeps catching my attention and I don't know what to make of it. However, the scene between Valentine and Ender was touching, but doesn't seem all that important. Either way, I have faith that Mr. Card will tell a great tale and I'm excited for these next weeks to pass quickly.
 

---

Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
 
Don't worry, the Stilson thing is just a joke.

A reference to one of George Lucas' least popular alterations to the original Star Wars.
 

---

Posted by All4Nothing (Member # 11601) on :
 
LoL....ok, now I get it. Thank you for clearing that up neo. It makes alot more sense now. Especially since I know the scene you're talking about, just didn't think of that as a reference to it. I must be getting slow in my older age.
 

---

Posted by Tara (Member # 10030) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by docmagik:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Orincoro:

quote:

---

Originally posted by docmagik:
Actually, it takes place between the second-to-last and last chapters of Enders Game.

SPOILERS FOR ENDER'S GAME BELOW!

It takes place after the end of the Bugger War, but before the Hive Queen is discovered.

---

That wasn't my understanding from what I've read. Where did you get that piece of info?

---

From Card in San Diego.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Orson Scott Card:

Most of Ender in Exile does indeed take place between the last two chapters of Ender's Game.

---

This is probably why no one has followed up on it. The last two chapters of EG take place between the times your stating and the book ends with Ender finding the hive queen, leaving the planet, and writing The Hive Queen and the Hegemon. You can find the rest of the answer above in this same topic.
 

---

Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Orson Scott Card:

Science fiction is rarely in either category, though obviously my publisher things Ender in Exile might well be given as a gift - hardcover as a Christmas present to somebody who would otherwise wait for the paperback. My publisher also thinks that Ender in Exile has legs that will allow it to stand up in competition with a lot of big-name titles. I worry that this might keep EinE from getting on any lists.

Best chance for a sci-fi book to hit the lists is at the end of summer and in January, where the New Year's slump hits the book industry. Then again, all the things that make those slump seasons will work against the sci-fi book, too.

The fact is, it's all a crapshoot. I think this is one of the best books I've ever written ... but I've thought that before about books that sold only moderately. Who knows?

---

I've been occasionally looking at its amazon.com sales rank out of curiosity, and I'm no expert, but it seems to be doing well. It was recently as high as #3 in the sci-fi category, and it's been steadily improving in overall rank as it gets closer to the release. I hope it makes the major lists, but I think a new Stephen King book comes out the very same day.
 

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Posted by la.SOMA (Member # 10608) on :
 
guys.. seriously...

ONE WEEK!!!
 

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Posted by C3PO the Dragon Slayer (Member # 10416) on :
 
yayz.
 

---

Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
 
Ia and 3PO, you guys are getting copies sent to you, right? Post when you receive them. That way I'll know that mine is on its way (I'm in Canada, so mine has a longer trip).

Also, some stores and libraries have it out already, or so I've heard.
 

---

Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :
 
I can't wait to get my copy.

*eyes mailbox anxiously*

My son can't wait to get my copy, either.

*grin*
 

---

Posted by All4Nothing (Member # 11601) on :
 
I really like the way the cover looks. Like how it seems to be crashing instead of going down for a landing.
 

---

Posted by Elise (Member # 7898) on :
 
Hi all,
Came here to see what you tought of the book. Mine has arrived yesterday! And I am in The Netherlands! Got it as a birthday present from my husband this morning (it's my birthday today). So I am very happy person.
Greetings from a very happy birthdaygirl.

edit:
I just saw the post from OSC. So this book wasn't supposed to get to me untill next week...I do not know where my husband ordered it for me I just know that our normal supplier had already sold all his books. I am not complaining though .

[ November 06, 2008, 06:29 AM: Message edited by: Elise ]
 

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Posted by All4Nothing (Member # 11601) on :
 
I'm going to go crazy with anticipation now...thanks alot.

Just messing. I've been going crazy with anticipation since it was announced. Happy Birthday and whatnot!
 

---

Posted by la.SOMA (Member # 10608) on :
 
i'll be sure to neo
 

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Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
 
Thanks!

*waits*
 

---

Posted by Rodger Brown (Member # 11476) on :
 
Will EinE be released on Audible and if so will it be on Nov 11.
 

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Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
 
Do I get a free copy OSC?

Puleezzzzzzz?

I'm joking...

no I'm not...

Yes I am...

Please?
 

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Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
 
Just for you, T:man.

http://www.bookspotcentral.com/2008/11/contest-ender-in-exile-by-orson-scott-card-signed/
 

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Posted by Catseye1979 (Member # 5560) on :
 
Just Got a E-mail from Amazon that my copy shipped out today.....It might actully arrive for my birthday on the 11th.....yay!
 

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Posted by Michiel (Member # 7649) on :
 
Just ordered my copy at Amazon! very exciting! And just in time for my father's birthday (who is a fan as well). He lives in the Netherlands, which is a place (Rotterdam! Sinterklaas!) that pops up often in OSC's work. Wonder what the connection is....
 

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Posted by Avin (Member # 7751) on :
 
So, why is there no thread actually discussing the book? I picked up my copy from the library last Thursday, and my wife and I have been reading a few chapters every night out loud to each other since then. I'm surprised there hasn't been any new topics about it; if I didn't have kids and work during the day, I'm sure I would have finished it the day I got it.
 

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Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 
Mine doesn't seem to have shipped yet.
 

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Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Avin:
So, why is there no thread actually discussing the book? I picked up my copy from the library last Thursday, and my wife and I have been reading a few chapters every night out loud to each other since then. I'm surprised there hasn't been any new topics about it; if I didn't have kids and work during the day, I'm sure I would have finished it the day I got it.

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quote:

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Originally posted by rivka:
Mine doesn't seem to have shipped yet.

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But I just got an email . . .
 

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Posted by Avin (Member # 7751) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by neo-dragon:

quote:

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Originally posted by Avin:
So, why is there no thread actually discussing the book? I picked up my copy from the library last Thursday, and my wife and I have been reading a few chapters every night out loud to each other since then. I'm surprised there hasn't been any new topics about it; if I didn't have kids and work during the day, I'm sure I would have finished it the day I got it.

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The official release date is tomorrow, so most of us don't have it yet.

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Really? I was surprised when I got an email that the book was available because I wasn't expecting it to be ready so soon after the release date, since I wasn't the first to place it on reserve, and now I'm doubly surprised to hear that apparently the library got it early somehow. This makes the first time I've felt glad about borrowing rather than buying a book that I've been definitely enjoying and intend to read again - I intended to wait for the paperback since I have the others in paperback, but couldn't wait to read it still.
 

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Posted by LargeTuna (Member # 10512) on :
 
I got it toaday W00T!
 

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Posted by Tara (Member # 10030) on :
 
I'll be checking in here for reviews.... I still can't decide whether to buy it now or wait till the library gets it.
 

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Posted by LargeTuna (Member # 10512) on :
 
well my review up to page 20 lol dont worry no real spoilers.

its a little talky and a lot of the wiggin family and stuff we allready know but its really interesting and i expect it to be better later on. after all it is just the beggining (its starting chapters with the emais again ) i liked quotes better
 

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Posted by la.SOMA (Member # 10608) on :
 
i havent recieved my copy from osc yet. so obviously, i couldnt wait and bought a copy tuesday morning. my name is written on page 374! i was so excited that i even showed the cashier at borders.

i'm a little more than half way through to book now and i've been getting happier and happier as i read.
 

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Posted by Grimnebulin (Member # 11828) on :
 
I just wanted to say that this book is everything I could have hoped for and more. Unfortunately for me I am currently in school do I don't have the leisure time to curl up with the hardback as I have with the previous books in this series. However, fortunately for me this book has again been produced by the wonderful cast that has read the series so far in audio book format, and it has been a wonderful experience. Two more hours to go for me, and the only thing I worry is the temptation for Mr. Card to continue in this timeline and forget about reuniting the storylines of Bean and Ender. Hope you are are enjoying this as much as I am!
 

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Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by la.SOMA:
i havent recieved my copy from osc yet. so obviously, i couldnt wait and bought a copy tuesday morning. my name is written on page 374! i was so excited that i even showed the cashier at borders.

i'm a little more than half way through to book now and i've been getting happier and happier as i read.

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Wait, he credits us? Is my name in there? Initials L.W.
 

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Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
 
I'm still waiting for mine as well, but I visited my local bookstore just to look at a copy. He does indeed give credit to the individuals who replied in that thread way back. Our names are right there in bold on page 374. OSC is just awesome that way.
 

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Posted by la.SOMA (Member # 10608) on :
 
I do see an L.W. in there

I finished reading it an hour or so ago. I'm not going to post any thoughts until it's stewed for a few days and also give a chance for more of the die-hards to read it!

I CAN say that I am extremely please.
 

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Posted by Avin (Member # 7751) on :
 
I am also really enjoying the book. I do have to say though, that I wish I had never read Speaker for the Dead, Xenocide, and Children of the Mind now.

Previously, those three had been my least favorites of the Ender series, but I didn't really mind their existence. They were just a very different type of story.

Now however I find myself wishing that either I had never read them, or that the stories were completely unrelated to Ender. Because they are interesting stories, especially Speaker, but I find that it does detract somewhat from reading Ender in Exile.

It's funny that they didn't detract from Ender's Shadow or the Shadow series in the same way. For Ender's Shadow, the entire story was known, the entire point was looking at it through a completely different perspective. And it worked really well. For the rest of the Shadow series, although we knew what the end result would generally be - that Peter would unite Earth under one government - we had no clue how that was going to happen, plus we didn't know anything about Bean's fate, so that could go anywhere.

With Ender in Exile, we have neither. We ultimately know that whatever happens in this story, Ender survives, so there's no reason to fear too much. We know Novinha was his first wife, so we know nothing comes of that particular subplot in Exile (I'll refrain from being too specific to avoid spoilers). We know that the universe 3000 years from now has forgotten whatever might have happened during this time period, so there's no real cause for concern. And we also know how Ender works, so it's not too much mystery how he is going to deal with all the situations that he comes across.

Keep in mind this is after roughly a third of the way through the book so these impressions might change, and I hope to be very surprised. I also don't mean to sound too negative about it, I am thoroughly enjoying it, I just am slightly disappointed because I know I would have enjoyed it MORE if I had not read Speaker and the rest.
 

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Posted by All4Nothing (Member # 11601) on :
 
It may be some time before I can get my hands on a copy, but I keep checking this to see how you all are enjoying the book. After reading the new essay I'm dying to read this tale. When you guys start discussing it in detail could you put in a "Spoilers start here" or something to that effect please? That way, I'll know not to continue reading.
 

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Posted by Rodger Brown (Member # 11476) on :
 
spoilers

I always skip to the afterword I know its not very smart but where is Chapter 15 of Ender's Game I can't find it on IGMS.
 

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Posted by All4Nothing (Member # 11601) on :
 
Chapter 15 of Ender's Game starts on page 305. It's titled "Speaker for the Dead". Now I gotta stay outta here, cause you're about to do spoilers I take it.
 

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Posted by Sean Monahan (Member # 9334) on :
 
Got mine yesterday. Something slightly humorous:

In OSC's other books, he has a convention of giving his chapters one-word titles. When I started reading, I actually thought the title of the first chapter in this book was "Chapter", until I got to chapter 2 and it had the same title, and I realized that this book has untitled chapters.

/dunce
 

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Posted by Coriandre (Member # 11830) on :
 
I just happened to be reading through the entire series a month ago up till last friday, when I realized Exile was coming out.

And at the end of Chapter 4 there is a continuity error between Ender meeting Valentine.

At the end of Ender's Game he meets Valentine on Eros while working on some machine, busy work basically, but Ender in Exile is, more involved.

I just thought I'd point that out and see if I'm crazy or not.
 

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Posted by Ginol_Enam (Member # 7070) on :
 
Once you finish the book, or whenever you read the afterword, you'll understand
 

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Posted by Catseye1979 (Member # 5560) on :
 
*Spoilers*


A bigger problem might be that while on the Lake Valentine told Ender what Peter and Her were doing, In the new book Ender doesn't seem to know Demosthenes is Valentine, it is possible when Valentine told Ender what she was up to with Peter that she didn't mention the names they were using on the Nets I suppose.
 

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Posted by Zenox (Member # 8987) on :
 
In addition, Bean told Ender in Ender's Shadow the identity of Locke and Demosthenes, after the war ended.
 

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Posted by Catseye1979 (Member # 5560) on :
 
I remember that he told the other kids...I don't remember Ender being present at the time. While it's highly unklikly that Ender didn't know, it is possible. I think....I"m going to have to go back and read some
 

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Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by rivka:

quote:

---

Originally posted by rivka:
Mine doesn't seem to have shipped yet.

---

But I just got an email . . .

---

Your item was misrouted. The error has been corrected and every effort is being made to deliver it as soon as possible.


 

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Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :
 
Was your e-mail from UPS? I got some wierd e-mail from UPS that I couldn't open because it had a virus. I just figured it had to do with the book being shipped.

*eyes mailbox anxiously*
 

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Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 
No, my email was from Amazon. It had a tracking number.

That's the most recent results of checking tracking status with USPS.
 

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Posted by CRash (Member # 7754) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rodger Brown:
spoilers

I always skip to the afterword I know its not very smart but where is Chapter 15 of Ender's Game I can't find it on IGMS.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
I got my copy from OSC today!!!!

I had almost forgotten about it entirely, and I wasn't planning on ordering my own because I didn't have the money; I was going to wait for it to come out in paperback and then get it. So I came home from work and there was box in the mail, which I assumed was a movie that I'd ordered from Amazon (I lost my other copy of Gettysburg, so I needed a new one post haste!), but imagine my surprise when I opened it to find a shiny copy of Ender in Exile, autographed, and in the back where my name was, autographed again with a little underline under my name.

Too awesome. I had a major dorkgasm when I saw it.

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quote:

---

Silly person. How could you forget about such a thing? I've been counting the days. If you've received yours I should be getting mine soon too. That's the best news I've heard all week!

---

Well I've been really busy lately, and I usually only throught about it whenever I slipped over to this side of the board, which I only do every couple of days. Besides, I had no idea when he'd send it. It could be the day it came out, or it could have been months from now, it's not like there was a rush, but it was pretty cool of him to get on it and send them out so fast. He probably could have waited for all of us to buy it and then send them to us. That's cool of him.

C3PO -

Yeah it IS really loopy. Other than his initials, all the letters in between look like a bunch of swirls and such of indiscernable letters. Must be that eccentric author thing. I've read that famous people who autograph stuff a lot tend to adopt a signature that's easier to write and less stressful on their hands...but isn't necessarily legible. Maybe there's something to that. But it's unique and cool, I like it.
 

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Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
 
So I'm in Prague, and he's sending my copy to california... which means I won't receive it! My mom will though- I'm going to ask her to scan the page for me and email it. Hehe.
 

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Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
 
Woohoo! Mine arrived this afternoon. Excellent way to start the weekend.
 

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Posted by demosthenes9 (Member # 7442) on :
 
Picked up a copy last night and finished it about 30 mins ago.

Overall impression is kind of mixed. It's a "good read" so to speak but it left me feeling kind of empty in the end.

***DISCLAIMER****

This is just my personal opinion. Obviously, others might read the book differently and come to a different conclusion.


The book kind of wraps up most of the loose ends and bridges some gaps, but it did so in a way that seemed rather forced.

It was almost as if Card had a list he was working from and checked them off one by one by forcing/contriving notions to make everything fit in a rather heavy handed way.

Another criticism I have is kind of a pet peeve of mine and it relates to the whole "Shadow" series.

It's hard for me to describe, but Ender and Speaker had a measure of philosophical and moral depth to them.

The Shadow series and Ender in Exile come off as nothing more than SciFi adventure stories.

I'm not saying that any of them were "bad", it's just that Ender and SFTD were just sooooo much better in my opinion.

In talking with others, we could debate the meanings in Ender and SFTD.

With Shadow books, all we could do really was debate the details.

I was really hoping that Ender in Exile would get back to to the same style of Ender or SFTD and am someone disappointed that it didn't.

Again, a good read, but nowhere near what I was hoping for.

To Mr. Card specifically, I have to seriously disagree with your statement "I think this is one of the best books I've ever written."

Granted, we are probably using different yardsticks to measure by, but Ender and SFTD are far far better than Ender in Exile in my opinion.

To be fair, I'm not sure that this book could have been much different given the constraints of what you were trying to accomplish (wrapping up loose ends, tying Ender and Shadow together, etcetera.)
 

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Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
Yeah it IS really loopy. Other than his initials, all the letters in between look like a bunch of swirls and such of indiscernable letters. Must be that eccentric author thing. I've read that famous people who autograph stuff a lot tend to adopt a signature that's easier to write and less stressful on their hands...but isn't necessarily legible. Maybe there's something to that. But it's unique and cool, I like it.

---

I shouldn't say anything. The last time I commented on his signature on Hatrack, I got heckled about it here and at a signing, and my autographed book has an extra little comment.

But the first book I got autographed by OSC (in 1991) has the distinctive three loops, but all the letters in between are distinct enough to make out. The two signed in the past 5 years have the loops, but far less distinct in-between letters.

Clearly, this is proof of evolution, and efficiency is key.
 

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Posted by T:man (Member # 11614) on :
 
OSC I would love a free copy of Shadow(s) in Flight, wink wink nudge nudge, come on dude I am probably the only guy here who thinks that Bean owned Ender!
 

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Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
 
And that's exactly why you don't get one! Now go sit in the corner.
 

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Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
 
Please, you'll have to have posted long and wee about all the deficiencies of OSC and his ideas, and his values, and his stances on just about everything before he sends you a free book.

I assume that's why I'm getting one- but maybe it's more like the kid no one likes who was sitting there when your Mom offered to buy ice cream for all your little friends, and his little head popped up and said.. m-m-m-me two?
 

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Posted by stone_maiden (Member # 4071) on :
 
I picked mine up on Tuesday, and I just finished it. I don't want to ruin anything for anyone (I have a tendency to blab, so I'll just stop right now), but the ending felt satisfying for me. I first read Ender's Game, then SFTD, Xenocide, and COTM in middle school. I then discovered the Shadow books. I feel like this book just adds another layer or two of cohesion that makes the "Enderverse" even more three-dimensional. I loved how Graff was portrayed, I used to really dislike him but now I have so much more respect for him.

This just makes me want to go back and read everything all over again! But I can't, at least not now...I have to start studying for my finals and then study for the MCATs.
 

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Posted by JonHecht (Member # 9712) on :
 
There was another "Have children" monologue in this one.
 

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Posted by julianD (Member # 10450) on :
 
Ok i guess this is kind of a spoiler. I just finished exile and i feel a little let down. Now granted it is a OSC book and i do love all his work, I thought the book was going to focus on beans lost kid and it didn't really come to that part of the story until the last 3 chapters. I still enjoyed it i guess i just expected something more for that story line.
 

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Posted by Ginol_Enam (Member # 7070) on :
 
So, after reading this book my interest was piqued regarding all the various Ender short stories I've never read. A quick look at wikipedia showed, however, that a lot of the IGMS short stories are contained within EiE...

Were these stories actually just inserted into EiE (the Alessandra story sounds like it could easily be her introductory chapter), or were they perhaps meant as previews? Or were they lengthened and then integrated into the novel?

I don't particularly mind since, as I said, I've never read these stories. But I could imagine being pretty frustrated if I had already read, in some form, a lot of the novels story before it had been released...
 

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Posted by All4Nothing (Member # 11601) on :
 
I started sometime yesterday, and I finished at ll:20 something this morning. I'm highly impressed with this book. I worry more about the people that haven't read the other books than I do alot of us. We got alot of closure in this book. Alot of closure.

As far as the Ender knowing Demosthenes identity...like the avid Enderverse fan I am ....I checked it.....on the lake she never really tells Ender that she is Demosthenes. She only hints to how Peter is playing at world domination. It's possible it was contradicted in the Shadow series...I have no idea. I just know that, as a Ender fan, this book made me shed a few unexpected tears here and there.

Also for those that are in a panic about AD.....or ummm...Arkanian....the story was left open ended, so it's possible we may see more yet.
 

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Posted by Michiel (Member # 7649) on :
 
Here is an interview, tangentially on EiE
http://radio.nationalreview.com/betweenthecovers/post/?q=MmM1YWNlNTQ1MDI1OWYyNzhiZDgyZGZkOTZkY2FkYjU=
 

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Posted by Shan (Member # 4550) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by julianD:
Ok i guess this is kind of a spoiler. I just finished exile and i feel a little let down. Now granted it is a OSC book and i do love all his work, I thought the book was going to focus on beans lost kid and it didn't really come to that part of the story until the last 3 chapters. I still enjoyed it i guess i just expected something more for that story line.

---

I'm perplexed as to how you could think a book with the title "Ender in Exile" would feature any other protagonist.

On the other had, perhaps we'll get another installment dealing with just Bean and his children. "Bean's Bonanza" or "Bean's Blessing" or "Bean's Blight" or Bean's Biogenesis."

I just finished reading my personalized, signed copy. I was sad it was done. I very much enjoyed it. And I was delighted that I was able to offer some words and page numbers/references that helped in the writing of this book.

Well done, Mr. Card, and thank you!
 

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Posted by Unmaker (Member # 1641) on :
 
Except for the continued philosophical homogeneity of OSC's heroes in recent years, I enjoyed the book. Ender still felt like Ender, even if he did seem to embrace his parents' religion more than the original sequels intimated that he would have. I was moved to tears at Graff's final letter. Good stuff (though a little anticlimatic, as are most prequels).
 

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Posted by Rodger Brown (Member # 11476) on :
 
Ok So I am thrilled. A Young Man With Prospects is in EinE. I have been waiting for an audio version for a while now and now I have it. I know I'm weird and though I love reading there's just something about the way OSC's books are read when done in MP3/CD. To me it's more satisfying than reading them myself.
 

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Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
I finished reading Ender in Exile after roughly a solid straight 8 hours of reading, from the moment I sat down on the couch and finished the next morning. I loved the book it was as someone else has said above everything we could have dreamed of and more. The book had its typical Card Humor, its Joy, its Tragedy we have come to expect from Card's works, his writing style has evolved it is no longer what it was in Ender's Game but isn't what it was in the Shadow books either it IS that but more, evolved, refined, he took a great writing style and made it better there isn't a part of the book I didn't like and while it is hard for me to pick favorites, I must say the initial conversation between Alessandra and her Mother made me laugh and feel good inside. And the typical Jewish (Russian?) materialist humor between Po and Sel was hilarious and clever.

I was shocked and mismayed and how easily Alessandra's mother turned into her Grandmother, I didn't deny it I didn't go "aha Deus Ex machina" in hindsight I immediately saw that this was inevitable, it is all so tragic and this is part of Card's skill as a writer, I totally believe it.

The email conversations continue to delight me, and I will be sad in Shadow's in Flight when they are gone. For get me not, it seems like we have had the table cloth pulled right from under us, a Shadow story became an Ender story and an Ender story will not be a Shadow story, darnation! Foiled again!

Only 1 wince moment, the diatribe about heterosexual monogamous marriages being perfect and best, I wish I had never read a previous World Watch article if I never had I wouldn't have noticed it as cringe worthy as this was already in his previous Shadow Books and seemed to work alright there, and worked alright here, it just reminded me of things I rather not think about.

And yes Ender was the same Ender we know and love, a little more mature and less aflicted as he was in Ender's Game but the same Ender we know nonetheless.

Only one other disappointment, I wasn't mentioned in the back, I am fairly certain I helped as well spot possible inconsistencies.

*sighs wistfully* When is Shadow's In Flight being published?
 

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Posted by All4Nothing (Member # 11601) on :
 
It really seems as if everything is coming together and heading towards what I think may be a very fullfilling ending. My brother is a big Bean fan, and I'm a big Ender fan. So this'll bring things together and make it so I don't have to force him to read the books after Ender's Game now.
 

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Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by rivka:

quote:

---

Originally posted by rivka:

quote:

---

Originally posted by rivka:
Mine doesn't seem to have shipped yet.

---

But I just got an email . . .

---

Your item was misrouted. The error has been corrected and every effort is being made to deliver it as soon as possible.

---

I wonder whether I should blame USPS or UPS for the fact that it apparently took 2 days to travel less than 10 miles (from a neighboring zipcode's post office (where it was accidentally sent) to mine). So much for the USPS -> UPS shipping being fast and efficient.

Naturally, it was delivered on Shabbos (Saturday), when I couldn't open the box. And since I needed to be at work at 9 this morning (proctoring midterms all day), I decided it was a bad idea to risk starting it last night.

I won't even be home until 8 tonight. But working all day today means I don't have to go in tomorrow, so tonight that book is MINE!
 

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Posted by All4Nothing (Member # 11601) on :
 
If you're anything like me and BB, that was probably a very good decision Rivka.
 

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Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 
I know what usually happens when I get my hands on a new OSC novel . . .
 

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Posted by Scrooby (Member # 11838) on :
 
Long time OSC fan, first time poster.

I finished reading EinE last night and I must say that while I enjoyed many things about the book, overall I am rather disappointed. Those of us who have been reading all of the Enderverse short stories over at IGMS have already read a rather large portion of this book. This in and of itself wasn't that big of a deal seeing as the characters and events in those stories were expanded upon and given closure.

I suppose my main issue with this novel was that it just felt so pointless. To me it didn't feel like a cohesive novel, but more a string of short stories. I was left feeling that a couple more stories over at IGMS would have accomplished what this novel was trying to do.

That being said, there are little nuggets throughout the novel that I simply loved (that last scene with Graff is chief among them). And the publication of ANY Enderverse novel or short story is cause for celebration.

So thank you Mr. Card for this gift.

Now it's time to sit back and wait for the next installment in the life of the greatest fictional character ever put on page, Bean.
 

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Posted by All4Nothing (Member # 11601) on :
 
I feel you Rivka!

And Scrooby.....I really think the point was to bring everything together again. I, personally, have never been to IGMS. I didn't even know it was stories within the Enderverse untill very recently. Hopefully you do get your closure in the future...which I do think you will.

It seems like a prelude to Shadows in Flight to be honest. A very good prelude in my opinion. I'm very happy that I have a connection between Ender's Game and the rest of the books now.....especially since I can either go Ender's Game to Ender in Exile, or go Ender's Game to Ender's Shadow....it allows two different paths. I love it.
 

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Posted by BlueWizard (Member # 9389) on :
 
I hope I'm not repeating something already discussed, but I don't want to read this last page for fear of spoilers. I'm about 3/4's of the way through the book now. Got no sleep at all last night as I read through to the dawn.

This is one of those nit-picky things. Since we all, more or less, know the story, few of us have probably taken the time to read the plot summary on the dust jacket of the book.

"...out to the colonies. With him went his sister, Valentine, and the core of the artificial intelligence that would become Jane. He wrote The Hive Queen and The Hegemon, and his sister wrote The Speaker for the Dead."

Am I loopy, or did Valentine NOT write 'Speaker for the Dead'. If fact, I'm not sure there is a book called Speaker for the Dead. I was under the impression that all the books that Ender wrote as the Speaker were gathered together in one volume and generally referred to as 'Speaker for the Dead'. But that was never the intended title of a given book.

Am I right, or is my memory failing me?

Val wrote the history of the Battle School and the multi-volume history of the Formic wars before they left Shakespeare colony.

I'm sure this is a small point, and for the most part will go unnoticed by anyone but a compulsively obsessive nitpicker like myself.

Steve/bluewizard
 

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Posted by Blayne Bradley (Member # 8565) on :
 
Ender Wrote the Hive Queen and the Hegemon, Val wrote the History of the Bugger Wars with HQ and H at the back of the book.
 

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Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
 
Dust jacket blurbs have mistakes all the time.
 

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Posted by LargeTuna (Member # 10512) on :
 
I thought the book was awesome! I liked it so much, even though it had a slow start. The only story I had read that was in it was the "good prospects story". I enjoyed this book vey much, thank you!
 

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Posted by zvazda (Member # 11836) on :
 
Long time Lurker and first time poster -

Scrooby -
I have a very odd compulsion to do things chronologically, so while I hadn't read things at IGMS (except the stories that were in the book) I felt compelled to go drop the 2.50 on 4 different issues so that I could feel "up to date" in the Ender world before I read Ender in Exile. You can imagine that I was then a little upset that so much of the book was pulled from those short stories.

But this was more just me being upset at myself for my strange compulsion.

As I was reading the book (or more as I was finishing it) I realized that we NEEDED this book. It was necessary. In Speaker for the Dead we see an Ender who is at peace with life, even though he is still trying to fulfill his mission of finding the place for the Hive Queen. I never realized that what we didn't have was the time to see Ender deal with the Post-traumatic stress from the war. I think that that was the reason for this book, so that we could see Ender heal, so we could see the journey that made the Ender in Ender's Game the same person as the Ender in Speaker for the Dead.
 

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Posted by The White Whale (Member # 6594) on :
 
There's a book review of Ender in Exile up on Slashdot.

And I find the tags on the review interesting: wingnut, homophobes, military, cash cow, books scifi, story.
 

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Posted by Scrooby (Member # 11838) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by zvazda:
Long time Lurker and first time poster -

Scrooby -
I have a very odd compulsion to do things chronologically, so while I hadn't read things at IGMS (except the stories that were in the book) I felt compelled to go drop the 2.50 on 4 different issues so that I could feel "up to date" in the Ender world before I read Ender in Exile. You can imagine that I was then a little upset that so much of the book was pulled from those short stories.

But this was more just me being upset at myself for my strange compulsion.

As I was reading the book (or more as I was finishing it) I realized that we NEEDED this book. It was necessary. In Speaker for the Dead we see an Ender who is at peace with life, even though he is still trying to fulfill his mission of finding the place for the Hive Queen. I never realized that what we didn't have was the time to see Ender deal with the Post-traumatic stress from the war. I think that that was the reason for this book, so that we could see Ender heal, so we could see the journey that made the Ender in Ender's Game the same person as the Ender in Speaker for the Dead.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Scrooby:
I finished reading EinE last night and I must say that while I enjoyed many things about the book, overall I am rather disappointed. Those of us who have been reading all of the Enderverse short stories over at IGMS have already read a rather large portion of this book.

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quote:

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Originally posted by inv77:
I'm not even past page 100, but close.

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quote:

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Originally posted by All4Nothing:
Some of the letters in this book had me ready to start bustin out the water works. Not so much because of the content but the fact that I know now that it happend.

Spoiler Below

Like Ender's letter home, and Ender finding out about Bean/Petra/Peter. Very satisfying.

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quote:

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Originally posted by schnirro:
how about in EG when val tells ender(on the lake) what peter and herself were doing, but then in EiE ender is amazed to find out that val was Desmothenes? i still love all the books and do somewhat enjoy finding the inconsistencies.

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All4Nothing already addressed this one:
"As far as the Ender knowing Demosthenes identity...like the avid Enderverse fan I am ....I checked it.....on the lake she never really tells Ender that she is Demosthenes. She only hints to how Peter is playing at world domination. "
 

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Posted by All4Nothing (Member # 11601) on :
 
A better way to say it would be this:

pg. 235 of Ender's Game

"Whatever that means," he said.
"It means that you are going to make a difference in the world." And she told him what her and Peter were doing.
"How old is Peter, fourteen? Already planning to take over the world?"
 

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Posted by dictatorlv44 (Member # 11845) on :
 
I haven't read all of the posts here because it will take too much time, so....

Although I do agree with people in saying that EiE was kind of a let down, I will say that I did enjoy the book. The other books in the Ender and Bean saga focused on actions, wars, and philosophical questions of humanity and morality, but there was none of this.

I felt like EiE was more of a continuation of Ender's character. Like, in reading the other books, we find about what Ender ends up as, and how he became that way, but in EiE we find out why he turned into the man he is. I feel that we get a closer look into his psyche, and although there are other main characters, it felt as though their only purpose was to show different parts of Ender.
 

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Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
 
Still waiting... for copy to arrive.... Wait... becoming...Unbearable! Postal service... too slow! *scream*
 

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Posted by CRash (Member # 7754) on :
 
***SPOILERS AHEAD***

quote:

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Originally posted by IComeAnon87:
While I enjoyed the story lines of of Allesandra and her character was really nice and deep, I wanted more of Ganges. Yeah, I know, OSC addressed it in the back of the book but I felt like the Achilles II storyline was really rushed.

In the end I think the problem was that the initial rumors of the book were that it was going to focus on the Ganges storyline so when it didn't I was immediately put off.

The stuff that is between Chapter 14-15 or EG as OSC puts it is all really interesting information and I enjoyed it but my expectations were different and that made reading it harder to swallow while reading it.

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quote:

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Ender in Exile, Afterword
I never meant the book to go this way. I was supposed to spend a few chapters getting Ender from Eros to Shakespeare and on to Ganges...I ended up with a novel which mostly takes place between chapters 14 and 15...

Phillip Absher...bears the distinction of making me throw out several chapters in order to follow up on a plot thread that I had thought was a throwaway, and he convinced me was at the heart and soul of the story. He was right, I was wrong, and the book was the better for it.

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So it appears that OSC did in fact intend to write this book mainly focusing on the Ganges story but instead he chose to expand more on the earlier plotlines and Ender-coping-with-annoying-post-war-problems. I feel sort of selfish saying this, but I would much rather have read the book that OSC didn't write. I think that there was a lot of potential in the Ganges storyline, but what we actually got could be divided into two parts: a novel about post-war Ender, and a short story (IGMS-length) about Ganges.

Personally I wish those two had been reversed, with more time devoted to Achilles/Arkanian on Ganges. Or even split into two completely separate books, one about post-war Ender and one that fleshed out the story on Ganges: the kind of split that OSC has done before with Xenocide/Children and Hegemon/Puppets. What's done is done, of course, but I can't help wondering what a fully fleshed out novel centered on the character of Arkanian would be like, center stage of the plot instead of the afterthought at the end of Exile.

So yes, IComeAnon, I agree that the Achilles/Arkanian storyline felt rushed, mostly because I expected a whole novel concerning it and not just a couple of chapters.
 

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Posted by J-Put (Member # 11752) on :
 
After the extreme build up of the "bean's missing child" plot line in the shadow series it seemed really easy and a little disappointing how they found and fixed him with only a couple pages of text in this book.
 

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Posted by CRash (Member # 7754) on :
 
***MAJOR SPOILERS***

The Re-enactment of the last few pages of E in E

Achilles: You suck, Ender.

Ender: You don't suck because your daddy ain't who you think he is. You're the offspring of my smartest best buddies ever, including Bean who I hardly noticed in EG but apparently I have this deep and abiding love for. But your brainy self can't figure that out even though you're like a bajillion feet tall and look nothing like Achilles.

Achilles: You lie! (nearly kills Ender)

Ender: Ow.

Achilles: (thinks) Huh. That actually makes a lot of sense. Sorry about that, dude. (carries Ender to doctor)

Valentine: You're both idiots.

Ender: No, I just have psychological issues resulting from my beating to death a couple of kids who bullied me. Or maybe I've always had psychological issues. I have a severe concussion so I'm not really sure.

Achilles: I can't be an idiot, because my parents were super brainy apparently. I'm going to call myself Arkanian Delphiki, not to be confused with my brother Andrew Arkanian Delphiki on Earth and Ender Arkanian Delphiki zooming around through space somewhere (I assume Ender told me that although it isn't mentioned in the book).

Ender: Yeah, interesting that I never mention ansible-ing Bean, even though I know the names of the three babies he took with him. Who names a kid Cincinnatus, by the way? I much prefer the two named after me.

Valentine: Let's just get out of here.

Ender: I'm hovering near death here, Val.

Valentine: Pssh, you can't die because you have a whole trilogy left to live through. And I don't want to hear any of this Bean nonsense again. Or about the suitcase you carry that holds one (1) bugger, which I'm going to pretend not to know about in order to keep continuity in the trilogy; the same way I forget about Jane even when you tell me about her in "Investment Counselor."

Ender: Okay fine- I'll never mention Bean in print again for the rest of my published life. I can forget things too you know, or at least pretend to be oblivious that you were Demosthenes and Peter was Locke. After all you never mentioned that in print either.

Valentine: Much easier to keep continuity when you aren't specific. Too bad Peter had to die 20 years younger for the sake of story. Oh, and why did you tell Graff that you saw Peter in your conversations when you specifically only communicated by audio in Shadow of the Giant?

Ender: Bastard lied to me so much in Battle School I thought I'd return the favor. I don't know why I'm pretending to be on speaking terms with him in this book, because he basically ruined my life. Why doesn't he just DIE already?

Valentine: Continuity. It's a bitch.
 

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Posted by Michiel (Member # 7649) on :
 
@CRash: Ouch...
 

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Posted by Michiel (Member # 7649) on :
 
PS: This is what I meant what I said I almost wished OSC hadn't written this book...
 

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Posted by Seatarsprayan (Member # 7634) on :
 
That was a thing of beauty.
 

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Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by neo-dragon:
Dust jacket blurbs have mistakes all the time.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by J-Put:
After the extreme build up of the "bean's missing child" plot line in the shadow series it seemed really easy and a little disappointing how they found and fixed him with only a couple pages of text in this book.

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quote:

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I'd like to see a character who was less than brilliant treated in any kind of a forgiving way in one of OSC's books...

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Why? Are there not enough books by other authors out there that do this that you need OSC to provide them?
 

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Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
 
OSC can write what he wants- I just find it interesting and possibly significant that he seems to need very much to assert that all his characters are very smart. I'd like to see what he'd do without the trope. It's not a demand, it's an observation of my own interests.
 

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Posted by Eann (Member # 11848) on :
 
First time poster here. I discovered OSC last December and have read 15 of his books this year.

I just finished Ender in Exile and am on a high - I truly found it satisfying and enjoyable, and was surprised by the criticism in this thread. I love OSC's brilliant characters -- the dialogue and plot is fascinating to read for me (although I will admit that the conversations begin to seem strangely similar). It was great to see Ender right after the war... I loved the letters between Ender & Graff, & seeing the development of the new colony. Such wonderful characters. The plot where Ender secures his governorship on Shakespeare was great. The gold-bugs were very cool too! The last part with Virlomi & Achilles seemed less developed, but it was still interesting to see the question of Bean's last child answered, and what it meant to Petra.

After reading so many Ender/Bean novels I have really grown to love these characters. So it's fun when he revisits them and fills in some details... Ender's parents, Petra, Graff, even Peter and Mazer.

One thing that fell short for me (and this is minor) was Valentine... a bit naggy and less insightful than I expected her to be. I wasn't as impressed with her as I usually am. When do we get a novel more from her perspective? I also was surprised by the similarities between Alessandra and Randall - 2 over-the-top insane moms controlling their children and both break free? But truly these are minor criticisms - I found the novel to be greatly satisfying, hard to put down as they always are. Thanks, OSC! Keep them coming. I am hopeful that introduction of new characters means there will be more books coming.

Can someone remind me if Ender's parents' response to Ender's letter is included in one of the books? I can't remember and would love to read (or re-read) it... Thanks!
 

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Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 
CRash, that was awesome. (Correction, though. Ender clearly has no idea that Bean and the three genetically challenged babies are on a spaceship somewhere. He bought the party line that they are all long dead.)

EiE: I was not expecting another EG, just a solid Ender tale. And that's what I got. The borrowing of IGMS stories was frustrating (although I hadn't read all of the ones used, just some), but when OSC draws on shorts and doesn't actually use the material, people whine about that. (e.g. Crystal City)
 

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Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
 
Very satisfying story.

By now, I tend to judge the Enderverse stories by my reaction at the very end in one way: Do I feel like writing afterwards? After most of the Shadow books, that answer was a definitive no. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed Ender's Shadow and Shadow of the Hegemon, but then they sort of lost some of the luster, even though I was interested to see how the story ended. But at the end of Ender's Game, and then especially Speaker for the Dead, (and to a slightly lesser degree X and CotM), they left me with an indescribable and insatiable desire to create something of my own. I don't mean fanfiction (which I've never liked) and I don't mean to write a story that emulates Card's writing style or plot in anyway. I have plenty of my own stories that lay half finished or half begun in the recesses of my harddrive, clamoring to be finished (or begun, in some cases), but I tend to pick at them like vultures over carrion.

EinE left me feeling like I feel after I read Speaker, EG and the other two. I felt reenergized, and it's a welcome feeling after spending months doing only academic writing. Thus I feel this story succeeds on multiple levels, both as an excellently crafted and executed story all by itself, and on a very personal level that very few other writers succeed in sparking.

PS. I have a lot of nitpicking, but I'm going to take an unusual step (for me) and mentally and physically set all of it aside and just enjoy the book. I'm sure he could have written it a 100 different ways and it wouldn't have made it worse, just different, and what he actually did write was quite nice, so I'm perfectly comfortable with just letting it be.
 

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Posted by NeroWolf666 (Member # 11847) on :
 
**Possible Spoiler**

I am almost finished with EinE and have discovered an error between this book and Shadow of the Giant. At the end of SotG Peters conversations with Ender was done without video. However in EinE Ender describes to Hyrum how Peter now looks to him.
 

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Posted by umberhulk (Member # 11788) on :
 

quote:

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OSC is kind of like Patricia Cornwell and her obsession with all her characters being in awesome physical shape, and their being rich and having the ability to speak French and Italian. Or John Grisham's obsession with his characters liking to get up early in the morning. Or lets see... Hemingway's penchant for depressed and stoic male chauvinists. I'd like to see a character who was less than brilliant treated in any kind of a forgiving way in one of OSC's books... [/QB]

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quote:

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Originally posted by NeroWolf666:
Orinoco, In my opinion Achilles/Archanian's thinking was not shallow in the grander scheme. He was raised by his mother who was to the best of her abilities quite deceived in her way of thinking. She was living in a disillusioned world of lies that she believed in her heart was true. Children are a product of their upbringing. I am not saying people cannot change however that is my understanding with him having such a disturbed mother in a closed environment that he lived by false truths.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Orincoro:

quote:

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Originally posted by neo-dragon:
Dust jacket blurbs have mistakes all the time.

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For instance, one dust jacket for Ender's Game itself posits that Ender is the result of a genetic experiment... and that's pre-Ender's Shadow.

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Aren't we all just the results of genetic experimentation?
 

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Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
 
So we should put on the dust jacket of every book at the protagonist is dying... after all, we're all dying.
 

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Posted by NeroWolf666 (Member # 11847) on :
 
I always assumed we were products of our parents not having anything else to do during their idle time.


I do however delight in the fact that I am a Third.
 

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Posted by inv77 (Member # 11840) on :
 
its about pahe 160now...and Im laughing and enjoying Enders confrontation with the Captain and Valentines 3hr ansible letters from Peter. Ender is so clever funny. I wish the book were more in Enders head though. Rather than third party viewing
 

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Posted by NeroWolf666 (Member # 11847) on :
 
Just wait til they get to Colony I. Enders response to the captains obvious plans of taking the lead is priceless.
 

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Posted by Steve_G (Member # 10101) on :
 
Was the stasis method of traveling in any of the other books? I don't remember it ever being an option before. Was this just a method to allow Graff to not die off too quickly? This also introduces the question of why didn't Bean and his babies just go into stasis until a cure could be found.

I did pick up on the fact that Graff's going in to stasis 10 months out of 12 was just like what the emperors did in Card's Worthing Saga. I thought it was funny when Graff woke up to find himself sacked.

I liked that we got to see the change in Valentine throughout the book. While she was annoying at times, she was definitely growing and finding her own kind of freedom.
 

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Posted by NeroWolf666 (Member # 11847) on :
 
I think the reason Bean went into space was that zero gravity was better on his heart than stasis would be. The fact of he could live decades longer while supposedly Volescu found a cure. Who knows maybe to help time pass more he was on stasis on the ship. He could survive centuries that way.

I don't think of it as an error more as an omission of the full facts. At least bringing in the idea of stasis OCS did not contradict himself anywhere else in the stories. More like left a tidbit of newness for later.
 

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Posted by J-Put (Member # 11752) on :
 
That whole stasis thing kind of threw me off a little bit. It didn't directly contradict anything in any of the other books, but I think that it was pretty well implied that they never had anything like that. For instance Mazer's flight when he was just waiting for the fleet to arrive at the formic worlds. He talked about how horrible and boring the flight was. I don't see any reason why he wouldn't have been in stasis, and then it wouldn't have been boring at all, just a nap.
 

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Posted by Dagonee (Member # 5818) on :
 
It's very likely stasis was developed in the 50 years between Mazer leaving and coming back.
 

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Posted by Synesthesia (Member # 4774) on :
 
Is it bad that I didn't really like this book...?
I found it frustrating. I love the Ender series, but I am afraid to go into why I don't like the Bean series as much for fear that people will throw tomatoes at me.
Cyber ones.
 

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Posted by Steve_G (Member # 10101) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by NeroWolf666:
I think the reason Bean went into space was that zero gravity was better on his heart than stasis would be. The fact of he could live decades longer while supposedly Volescu found a cure. Who knows maybe to help time pass more he was on stasis on the ship. He could survive centuries that way.

I don't think of it as an error more as an omission of the full facts. At least bringing in the idea of stasis OCS did not contradict himself anywhere else in the stories. More like left a tidbit of newness for later.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by umberhulk:

quote:

---

OSC is kind of like Patricia Cornwell and her obsession with all her characters being in awesome physical shape, and their being rich and having the ability to speak French and Italian. Or John Grisham's obsession with his characters liking to get up early in the morning. Or lets see... Hemingway's penchant for depressed and stoic male chauvinists. I'd like to see a character who was less than brilliant treated in any kind of a forgiving way in one of OSC's books...

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That's less true in his stories outside Enderverse. Most of his character are pretty bright, but the average intelligence is everything not Enderverse is obviously a lot lower. [/QB]

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quote:

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Originally posted by Steve_G:

quote:

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Originally posted by NeroWolf666:
I think the reason Bean went into space was that zero gravity was better on his heart than stasis would be. The fact of he could live decades longer while supposedly Volescu found a cure. Who knows maybe to help time pass more he was on stasis on the ship. He could survive centuries that way.

I don't think of it as an error more as an omission of the full facts. At least bringing in the idea of stasis OCS did not contradict himself anywhere else in the stories. More like left a tidbit of newness for later.

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In stasis there would be no strain on Bean's heart. Personally I wish the stasis thing wouldn't have been introduced, since it does create some contradictions. It would have been better if Graff took a short interstellar trip to extend his life out.

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quote:

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Originally posted by rivka:
CRash, that was awesome. (Correction, though. Ender clearly has no idea that Bean and the three genetically challenged babies are on a spaceship somewhere. He bought the party line that they are all long dead.)

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quote:

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Originally posted by Steve_G:
I did pick up on the fact that Graff's going in to stasis 10 months out of 12 was just like what the emperors did in Card's Worthing Saga. I thought it was funny when Graff woke up to find himself sacked.

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quote:

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Originally posted by NeroWolf666:
Stasis would not completely shut down the body. In Beans case where his body grows even when its not supposed to I still think just the relativistic flight would still have been the better choice of the 2. Especially given the fact that he went with 3 of his children. It would have been best for him to be with his children as long as possible.

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I don't know that you can make the point that Bean would keep growing in stasis. Bean's growth differs from normal growth in that it is constant. I don't see how it breaks any other rules. Stasis stops all growth as was brought up at one point in the novel, but I don't remember where.

I can accept that waking up from stasis could be a strain on the heart though.

Speaking of which the strain on the heart thing never really made sense to me either. Stick an artificial ticker in there, and replace it every now and then (too bad they didn't think of that for Peter as well). The bigger problem would be the brain smashing against the skull.
 

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Posted by NeroWolf666 (Member # 11847) on :
 
Stasis (coming from everything I have read) does not fully shutdown the body. It basically slows down the body making it a fraction of an inch away from death. It is my opinion (therefor I could be way wrong) that with Beans condition of growth it would not significantly slow down his process of growing. Also as pointed out the stress on the body being revived would probably be very bad for beans overall health.
 

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Posted by LargeTuna (Member # 10512) on :
 
Spoilers: from a war of gifts and E in E


did that scene with Achilles jr. beating up on ender remind anyone about that time in "A War Of Gifts" when Zeck hit Ender cause Ender provoked him, then zeck learned that his father was a bad dude, even though if he followed the clues he really knew that all along he was being lied to. I just re-read "AWOG" and this was the first thing that came to mind when I got to that scene. rant ended.
 

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Posted by Michiel (Member # 7649) on :
 
What I thought was a bit strange was that the Hive Queen did speak in <....>'s this time. Instead regular quotation marks were used.

Was this intentional?
 

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Posted by Objectivity (Member # 4553) on :
 
Here's a continuity error that no one has mentioned yet, probably because it's earlier in the story.

In Ender's Game, Peter initially guides Valentine in telling her what to write, but she eventually breaks free and writes for herself. At one point, Peter gives her the silent treatment and a point is made in saying if there was any difference in the quality, no one noticed. From then on, it's implied Valentine carried out her own agenda independently, although she still worked together with Peter.

In Ender In Exile, Valentine is still under Peter's thumb. She's supposed to be this great writer who does the history of Battle School and Shakespeare Colony and Ganges, etc. yet she can't form an opinion as Demonsthenes without Peter's assistance.

I accept continuity changing because the world has evolved far more than originally imagined, but this instance really didn't seem necessary except to create a false conflict.

As a general note, I wonder if he writes everything in sequence or follows various plot threads to conclusion or integrates later. I question because the beginning and end of the book feel a lot different than the middle. There is more speechifying in the beginning and end than in the middle. It almost seems like those parts were written to fit into the original idea of the story while the middle played out as if the writer was discovering the story at the same time as the reader - making the book a journey rather than a travel log (if that makes any sense).
 

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Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
 
MASSIVE SPOILERS!!!!!

Read it. Liked (but didn't love) it.

I was mildly irritated to have the shorts from IGMS included in the text of this book. Why am I paying for the same story twice? Henceforth, I'll just stop buying them at IGMS.

Not that big of a deal, though -- I did enjoy reading the stories without waiting for a whole new novel to arrive, and now that I know they'll be reused I'm prepared for it.

Also, was it just me, or was there major retconning in this book re: Ender's feelings about Bean? Suddenly Ender knew all along that Bean was the better tactician, could've defeated the buggers in his place, etc? That's not the way I remember EG.

And I agree with Michiel that Ender, as a character, was a bit flat in this book. I mean, it can't be easy to write a character knowing he has to end up a certain way to match the adult version you've already explored. But he just wasn't as captivating as EG-Ender or SftD/Xeno/CotM-Ender. IMHO.

I was also a little surprised at how easily Achilles II was bested. That was supposed to be the bulk of the storyline here, and it could've easily been cut and not hurt the overall arc at all.

And somec? That's a bit Asimov-ian for my tastes.

Anywho, it's always great for more Enderverse material, and it's inevitable that it's not all going to be the BEST READ EVAR! And I did enjoy it.

[ November 28, 2008, 10:39 PM: Message edited by: El JT de Spang ]
 

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Posted by DDDaysh (Member # 9499) on :
 
You've never paid for the same story twice before? Many, I have about half of Card's books in print AND audio - and some in a couple of versions of print.
 

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Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
 
Not without knowing I was paying for the same story twice.

Let me know if that clarification confuses you.
 

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Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 
If the only (or main) reason one subscribes to IGMS is the Ender stories, then the reaction makes perfect sense. Since I think many of the other stories are a better reason . . .
 

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Posted by CRash (Member # 7754) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by El JT de Spang:
Also, was it just me, or was there major retconning in this book re: Ender's feelings about Bean? Suddenly Ender knew all along that Bean was the better tactician, could've defeated the buggers in his place, etc? That's not the way I remember EG.

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Definitely not just you. It's quite a bit of a leap to read EG and then Exile, like I did, and go from Ender hardly noticing Bean's existence to being all best buddies ever and admiring all his abilities. It's certainly done to connect the Shadow series with Ender but I felt it was laid on a bit thick. I didn't see anything wrong with Ender's attitudes toward Bean in EG and didn't see the need for them to be so severely "corrected" in this linker book.
 

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Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
 
Yeah... Even when Ender finally writes home to his parents he can't mention his victory over the buggers without pointing out that Bean was the better tactician and he only won because of his help. I was a bit taken aback by how out of place that seemed. Similarly, in an earlier letter to Graff he makes a point of mentioning that Bean could have won the war.

Okay! Bean's smarter than Ender! We get it!
 

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Posted by BlueWizard (Member # 9389) on :
 
Stasis, or suspended animation -

This is not that uncommon a concept, and it hardly qualifies as 'magic' since virtually every other science fiction writer has used it, and even real scientist are searching for a way.

Some one said that if Stasis was true, and you put yourself in permanent stasis, it would be immortality. Really? Or would it be the equivalent of death?

What good is it, if you never wake up, and what good is it if you wake up so far in the future that you simply can't function in the world any more. Star Trek did an episode on this, one guy woke up an wanted to know how the stock market was doing. he expected to be a millionaire. They told him that the stock didn't exist any more. So, instead of rich, his investments were either lost, or turned over to his relatives centuries ago.

If someone you love goes into space for the earth equivalent of 50 years, you could just go into stasis on earth. But, that's 50 years you don't get to live. Meanwhile, the space traveler has moved a few years into the future without you. Certainly it could be done, but it just doesn't seem a good way to live a life. When your lives run separately, then you tend to separate. I just don't think it would work except in a few cases.

Also, keep in mind, this only works if you know you are coming back. When have we seen a character other than Mazer Rackham who make a round trip. He chose not to go into stasis.

One one hand, you could stay time synchronized with a space traveler, but you could not stay synchronized with progress on earth. Think about the changes on earth between 1900 and 1950, the consider the changes between 1950 and 2000. If you went to bed and there was not TV, and woke up to the internet, and 250 channels of digital TV. That's pretty serious cultural shock. Let the time span become too great and the cultural shock also become too great. You can simply never again get in sync with society.

I think Val and Ender were able to do it, because they never really took part in society. The never accumulated possessions. What do they care if the iPod has been invented, they don't plan to buy one. At best, then might be tempted to keep their desktops (personal computers) up to date, but beyond that, gadgets and general possession were not the big with them.

A stop for a few months here and there, plus their access to information would do a fair job of keeping them up-to-date on social changes.

I'm wonder though, if Stasis wasn't introduced to sync Ender and Val's ages, make them a little close to what they appear to be in later books. Or to create an in-world circumstance that allows for discontinuity in their ages to be explained.

Steve/bluewizard
 

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Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
 
Who are you responding to, BlueWizard?
 

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Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by BlueWizard:


I think Val and Ender were able to do it, because they never really took part in society. The never accumulated possessions. What do they care if the iPod has been invented, they don't plan to buy one. At best, then might be tempted to keep their desktops (personal computers) up to date, but beyond that, gadgets and general possession were not the big with them.

---

If you recall, in SftD Ender was completly useless with modern computers since he just let Jane do everything rather than bothering to keep up with it himself. I'm always amused by the part where he's working with Olhado and doesn't know how to do anything.

But on the whole, it doesn't seem like technology has changed a whole lot in the Enderverse in a 3000 year period. I guess because it didn't need to, and also because I suppose things might naturally change a bit more slowly in a civilization that has to accommodate people skipping across time.
 

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Posted by Tara (Member # 10030) on :
 
OSC has been personally responsible for 95% of all the procrastination I've been doing over the past three days... between the new book and Hatrack.

Thanks.

Having said that... I'm not finished it yet, but I think Ender in Exile is beautiful...
 

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Posted by Abel Magwitch (Member # 11867) on :
 
My thoughts on Ender in Exile:
First I'd like to say that I enjoyed this book, and that anything new in Enderverse is a good thing.

Well, like a lot of people I was expecting Ender's time on Ganges to be the bulk of the plot, but it turned out that it wasn't. Didn't actually bother me much though, because the time between chapter 14 and 15 in Ender's Game definitely needed expansion.

I also wasn't bothered by the short stories being included (I hadn't read the IGMS stories), but frankly in many parts it felt like the plot was just a bunch of short stories stuck together. I personally think that this novel would have been better as a short story collection.

My biggest gripe is the inconsistencies. I have no problems with deciding that you would like to rewrite something that you have previously written (as a writer myself I often feel compelled to do this), and you address this after the book; however, you don't address the glaring differences in relationships and individual events that frankly have no effect on timeline or plot (ie Peter or Valentine, who kept Ender from coming home?, Ender's relationship with Bean, sudden love?, the writing of the Hegemon, did Ender see Peter or not? etc...).

And finally, while I don't mind stasis being included in this book, why was it never mentioned in either the Ender or the Shadow series?

PS I can't wait for Shadows in Flight

quote:

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Originally posted by El JT de Spang:
Who are you responding to, BlueWizard?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Abel Magwitch:
the writing of the Hegemon, did Ender see Peter or not? etc...).

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quote:

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Originally posted by neo-dragon:

quote:

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Originally posted by Abel Magwitch:
the writing of the Hegemon, did Ender see Peter or not? etc...).

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When was it ever said that he didn't? There are now three accounts of his interviews with Peter; EG, SotG, and EiE, and I believe that all three state that they communicated "face to face" via ansible. The only inconsistency is Peter's age, which was said to be in his 70s in EG and "nearly 60" I think in EiE. I'm not sure why OSC decided to make it so that the trip to Shakespeare only took 40 years rather than 50, but I guess he'll make it match in EG when he rewrites the final chapter.

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quote:

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Originally posted by El JT de Spang:
Are you BlueWizard? Because nothing in his post addresses anything that CRash says in her preceding post.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Abel Magwitch:

quote:

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Originally posted by neo-dragon:

quote:

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Originally posted by Abel Magwitch:
the writing of the Hegemon, did Ender see Peter or not? etc...).

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When was it ever said that he didn't? There are now three accounts of his interviews with Peter; EG, SotG, and EiE, and I believe that all three state that they communicated "face to face" via ansible. The only inconsistency is Peter's age, which was said to be in his 70s in EG and "nearly 60" I think in EiE. I'm not sure why OSC decided to make it so that the trip to Shakespeare only took 40 years rather than 50, but I guess he'll make it match in EG when he rewrites the final chapter.

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Shadow of the Giant pg. 364
"No picture. Peter had to draw the line somewhere. And Ender hadn't insisted. It would be too painful for both of them-for Ender to see how much time had passed during his relativistic voyage out to Shakespeare, and for Peter to be forced to see how young Ender still was, how much life he still had ahead of him while Peter was looking coolly at his own old age and approaching death."

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Oh yeah... My bad.

Well, I guess that's not a major issue even if it is a bit inconsistent.
 

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Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Abel Magwitch:

quote:

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Originally posted by El JT de Spang:
Are you BlueWizard? Because nothing in his post addresses anything that CRash says in her preceding post.

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It's simple deduction really.
CRash refers to stasis as magic.
BlueWizard refutes that stasis is magic.
CRash states that people can use stasis to wait for others on voyages.
BlueWizard says that the culture shock would be to great.
CRash states that stasis while in starflight is immortality.
BlueWizard says that it isn't immortality if you aren't awake.

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quote:

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Originally posted by BlueWizard:
Stasis, or suspended animation -

This is not that uncommon a concept, and it hardly qualifies as 'magic' since virtually every other science fiction writer has used it, and even real scientist are searching for a way.

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quote:

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Originally posted by BlueWizard:
Some one said that if Stasis was true, and you put yourself in permanent stasis, it would be immortality. Really? Or would it be the equivalent of death?

What good is it, if you never wake up, and what good is it if you wake up so far in the future that you simply can't function in the world any more. Star Trek did an episode on this, one guy woke up an wanted to know how the stock market was doing. he expected to be a millionaire. They told him that the stock didn't exist any more. So, instead of rich, his investments were either lost, or turned over to his relatives centuries ago.

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quote:

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Originally posted by BlueWizard:
If someone you love goes into space for the earth equivalent of 50 years, you could just go into stasis on earth. But, that's 50 years you don't get to live. Meanwhile, the space traveler has moved a few years into the future without you. Certainly it could be done, but it just doesn't seem a good way to live a life. When your lives run separately, then you tend to separate. I just don't think it would work except in a few cases.

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quote:

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Originally posted by BlueWizard:
Also, keep in mind, this only works if you know you are coming back. When have we seen a character other than Mazer Rackham who make a round trip. He chose not to go into stasis.

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quote:

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Originally posted by BlueWizard:
One one hand, you could stay time synchronized with a space traveler, but you could not stay synchronized with progress on earth. Think about the changes on earth between 1900 and 1950, the consider the changes between 1950 and 2000. If you went to bed and there was not TV, and woke up to the internet, and 250 channels of digital TV. That's pretty serious cultural shock. Let the time span become too great and the cultural shock also become too great. You can simply never again get in sync with society.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by BlueWizard:
I think Val and Ender were able to do it, because they never really took part in society. The never accumulated possessions. What do they care if the iPod has been invented, they don't plan to buy one. At best, then might be tempted to keep their desktops (personal computers) up to date, but beyond that, gadgets and general possession were not the big with them.

A stop for a few months here and there, plus their access to information would do a fair job of keeping them up-to-date on social changes.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by BlueWizard:
I'm wonder though, if Stasis wasn't introduced to sync Ender and Val's ages, make them a little close to what they appear to be in later books. Or to create an in-world circumstance that allows for discontinuity in their ages to be explained.

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Quoth I in my previous post:
"(Stasis) works in EinE because it explains the Valentine/Ender age discrepancy, but if that continued then Val would keep aging (as SftD stands right now she has to be 41 when she reaches Trondheim and marries Jakt)."

So I absolutely agree with you that one of the reasons for Ender to go on stasis in EinE is to reconcile the siblings' ages for later books. That and prolonging Graff's lifespan were stasis's two great purposes in existence. And now it has accomplished those I say let it die. That is all.
 

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Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
 
I've finally finished EiE after being "almost finished" for days now. I had actually started typing a semi-lengthy review, but then, partway through, I realized that I suck at writing reviews.

So I decided to sum things up as simply as I could: EiE tells a story that didn't need to be told. It has its flaws, and it's not the best book in the series. But I am very glad that OSC wrote this book. I thoroughly enjoyed reading it, and I look forward to subsequent readings in years to come.

Shadows in Flight cannot come soon enough.

And if you happen to read this, Mr. Card, thanks again for the signed copy!
 

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Posted by Arthur Stuart (Member # 11868) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Scrooby:
Long time OSC fan, first time poster.

I finished reading EinE last night and I must say that while I enjoyed many things about the book, overall I am rather disappointed. Those of us who have been reading all of the Enderverse short stories over at IGMS have already read a rather large portion of this book. This in and of itself wasn't that big of a deal seeing as the characters and events in those stories were expanded upon and given closure.

I suppose my main issue with this novel was that it just felt so pointless. To me it didn't feel like a cohesive novel, but more a string of short stories. I was left feeling that a couple more stories over at IGMS would have accomplished what this novel was trying to do.

That being said, there are little nuggets throughout the novel that I simply loved (that last scene with Graff is chief among them). And the publication of ANY Enderverse novel or short story is cause for celebration.

So thank you Mr. Card for this gift.

Now it's time to sit back and wait for the next installment in the life of the greatest fictional character ever put on page, Bean.

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quote:

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Originally posted by El JT de Spang:
Are you BlueWizard? Because nothing in his post addresses anything that CRash says in her preceding post.

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quote:

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Originally posted by BlueWizard:


So, again, who pays the earth-side bills during those many centuries of space flight?

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quote:

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Originally posted by BlueWizard:
In response to CRash's lengthy comment...well said, several excellent points, and if we may dwell on this tangent a bit longer, one though kept coming into my mind as I read your reply -- MONEY.

While you sleep for 100 years, who pay the bills? Who pays for Stasis? Who maintains your apartment? Who pays the utilities? Who stores your cloths? If you remain in Stasis, and your space traveling friend comes back, what does he come back to? I'm not saying it can't work, only that it is very complicated.

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quote:

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Originally posted by BlueWizard:
One point I made is that few travelers intent to make a round trip. They go out, and for all practical purposes stay out.

The ship that took Ender to Shakespeare Colony, was then going to travel to another world, and from there on to another, and would eventually make the round trip back to earth. But the real-earth time span would have been massive.

---

That is a good point; in at least the early days of starflight there wouldn't be casual round-trip voyages. However, if stasis did exist then the very concept of such round-trip voyages becomes viable, which was not true in the Enderverse at any time up until EinE was published. The sacrifice that OSC originally wrote about, the disconnection from loved ones that can never be made up for, vanishes...at least for those who, accepting your money criticism, are rich enough to afford it.

The concept of suspended animation feeds into this loop of extended lifetimes that I remember from Worthing and have thought a lot about; I disliked greatly what that society became under somec, and that may be why I am concerned about the introduction of stasis to the Ender universe. Or it could be that I have become so used to what I considered the canon of the previous Ender books that it startled me to have this new twist. I guess that's a common fan reaction when it comes to sequels of any well-known body of work.
 

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Posted by MrSquicky (Member # 1802) on :
 
Is Ender broken in this book? I was hoping that it would handle the question of how Ender (semi-)recovered from cracking under the insane amount of stress he went through, but I get the feeling that this isn't really covered.
 

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Posted by CRash (Member # 7754) on :
 
Hmmm, it is sort of skipped over, isn't it? Perhaps Ender's somewhat fanatical obsession with the buggers becomes his way of coping? We don't really get too much of his internal thoughts in Exile compared to EG so it's hard to tell.
 

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Posted by BlueWizard (Member # 9389) on :
 
One last point of clarification on 'Stasis'.

It is not the cost to the person doing the space traveling that I was worrying about, it the cost, financial, social, and practical, to the person who stays behind is Stasis waiting for them to return.

For example, if my Brother makes a round trip to Colony1/Shakespeare, that's...what...60 years of my life but only 3 or 4 in his life. So, while he is gone and I'm in stasis for 60 years, what happens to my house, my car, my possessions, my investments, ...everything? With the exception of investments, I give everything up; it's all gone.

When my brother returns, he has is familiar and friendly brother there to help with the transition, but we have no place to live, we have virtually no cloths, no furniture, no general possession. Plus, how much help am I going to be, the world moved 60 years (1948 to 2008) forward while I fell behind. My brother is far more likely to have kept up on changes than I will have.

So, it is the money of the person who stays behind in stasis that I'm concerned about.

I think it is far more likely that people who go are people who are able to cut their ties with their past. And people who stay, simply say their farewells, and move on with their life.

Keep in mind that for the person on the starship, we are not talking about that much time; weeks, months, a few short years. I think those who travel in stasis do so for two reasons. The first is that the crew of the starship simply can't have 10,000 wide awake passengers to deal with. I think most are encouraged to go into stasis to relieve the work load on the crew and on the ships resources. If nothing else, it's effective crowd control.

So, I don't see your hypothetical situation coming up that often.

True Stasis does add some complications, and since we suspect that was done to relieve an existing inconsistency, while actually creating more inconsistencies, I again caution OSC not to become too obsessed with fixing inconsistencies. Most I can fix myself with an imagination and an off-page explanation. I would rather keep the heart of the story, than lose the heart, but make the data consistent.

As to extended lifetimes, lives are extended over time, but the lives themselves are not extended. Despite having existed for 3,000 years, by all reasonable measure, both Ender and Valentine are just beyond middle age. The only lifetime that matters is the 'real-time' life that you live. The fact that the world has lived 3,000 years doesn't matter that much to Ender who saw less than 60 year of it.

Steve/bluewizard
 

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Posted by Arthur Stuart (Member # 11868) on :
 
I have always been curious as to whether there were laws prohibiting people from putting money into financial institutions, and then using time dialation to make more money....

You know kinda like the Resturant at the end of the universe.
 

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Posted by CRash (Member # 7754) on :
 
More thoughts on stasis - I feel like a thread hijacker. But I guess it makes sense to discuss stasis in an already spoiler-rich EinE thread.

quote:

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Originally posted by BlueWizard:
It is not the cost to the person doing the space traveling that I was worrying about, it the cost, financial, social, and practical, to the person who stays behind is Stasis waiting for them to return...if my Brother makes a round trip to Colony1/Shakespeare, that's...what...60 years of my life but only 3 or 4 in his life. So, while he is gone and I'm in stasis for 60 years, what happens to my house, my car, my possessions, my investments, ...everything? With the exception of investments, I give everything up; it's all gone...So, it is the money of the person who stays behind in stasis that I'm concerned about.

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quote:

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Originally posted by BlueWizard:
When my brother returns, he has is familiar and friendly brother there to help with the transition, but we have no place to live, we have virtually no cloths, no furniture, no general possession. Plus, how much help am I going to be, the world moved 60 years (1948 to 2008) forward while I fell behind.

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quote:

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Originally posted by BlueWizard:
As to extended lifetimes, lives are extended over time, but the lives themselves are not extended. Despite having existed for 3,000 years, by all reasonable measure, both Ender and Valentine are just beyond middle age. The only lifetime that matters is the 'real-time' life that you live. The fact that the world has lived 3,000 years doesn't matter that much to Ender who saw less than 60 year of it...I think it is far more likely that people who go are people who are able to cut their ties with their past. And people who stay, simply say their farewells, and move on with their life...So, I don't see your hypothetical situation coming up that often.

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quote:

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Originally posted by BlueWizard:
True Stasis does add some complications, and since we suspect that was done to relieve an existing inconsistency, while actually creating more inconsistencies, I again caution OSC not to become too obsessed with fixing inconsistencies.

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Or at least don't fix them with stasis. I agree with you. I believe OSC has talked before about how stories evolve and change, and perhaps things don't fit together in one pretty big picture, but that doesn't change the value of the stories themselves to the people who read them. Makes sense to me.
 

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Posted by C3PO the Dragon Slayer (Member # 10416) on :
 
Minor spoilers, minor contradiction:

In Children of the Mind, it is said that the interplanetary currency that was made standard was derived from the Japanese yen. In Ender in Exile, it appears as though the FPE adopted some form of the dollar and made it standard. But with the gold bug subplot, it is mentioned that the colonists generally barter for trade, and eventually it is speculated that colonists would use their own local currencies when the colonies become large enough for a more complex economy to develop.

There are letters, particularly toward the end of Ender in Exile, that talk about trade between the colonies. It is hinted that there would come a time when there would be need for a universal currency or at least a way to compare the values of the local currencies, so eventually the FPE, or maybe Starways Congress (would it take that long?) would standardize something.

But how the heck does it get to the point where the Japanese yen becomes the dominant standardized currency, more powerful than the universal Hegemony dollar, or the US dollar, or the Euro (all three mentioned in the Shadow books). It's not completely impossible, but it must have taken some surge of Japanese-centered progress in some economic front to get to that point, and if that were the case the Japanese nationalistic characters in Children of the Mind would be bragging about very different things.
 

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Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
 
CotM mentions that there are a string of Japanese planets in the Starways Congress, and that they are highly influential, if not dominant, in policy formation. This may have happened very quickly in the colonization movement, and Japan may have been in a position to leverage quite a lot of influence among the planets and the FPE.

Also, you notice that Earth is mentioned only a handful of times in any of the Ender books, and the idea of someone being born there is seen as ridiculous. I think it's possible OSC is holding out references to Earth because he hasn't decided or doesn't want to reveal what happens there after Peter becomes Hegemon. It's quite possible that the FPE breaks up following his death, or that the Earth is destroyed in the future by some man made or natural disaster, and loses its influence on the Starways Congress, or among the planets.

There's no reason ultimately to assume that the Starways Congress currency, or even the entity of SC itself, comes from Earth at all, and it may indeed come from Divine Wind, or another Japanese by culture planet.
 

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Posted by neo-dragon (Member # 7168) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Orincoro:
and the idea of someone being born there is seen as ridiculous.

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quote:

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Originally posted by badman:
After reading this I was also a bit confused about why Bean didn't go into stasis. It definitely didn't give any reason. If Ender doesn't age, why would Bean age? This will probably be explained in the next Shadow book.

My thoughts are that someone needs to pilot the ship, even if it is completely autonomous, somoene would need to be awake at least just in case. Or, babies can't go into stasis and Bean has to look after them (although I'm pretty sure some of the colonists in stasis were probably babies so this is less likely)

All in all a pretty good book, one annoying thing was that since being bowled over by Ender's game, I've grudgingly put up with Bean being given a lot of the credit for what we all thought was all Ender originally. Now in this book it is suggested that the formics LET Ender destroy them all. Sometimes I think OSC is determined to undermine Ender for some reason. Of course that's his perogative.

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quote:

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Ender seems to have an idea of what everyone else is thinking, but with Bean he never did.

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That's because one-directional mind-reading is one of the most important ways Card establishes his hierarchy of intelligence.
 

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Posted by BlueWizard (Member # 9389) on :
 
Ender vs Bean - The People

Mind reading -

I'm not sure 'mind reading' is really the right term to use here. Both Ender and Bean have a very fast and deep intuitive understanding of the people around them and of the immediate situation. They both understand before anyone else has even begun to analyze. But a deep fast intuitive understanding is not quite the same as mind reading.

I think one of the reasons for the conflict in intuitive understanding between Bean and Ender, is that on shear raw intellect, Bean is superior to Ender. Yet, there are other aspect that put Ender ahead. When you are smarter than everyone else in the room, it is easy to figure other out. But when you have two people who are hyper-genius but in different ways, it is next to impossible for either to understand the other in this intuitive way.

Ender vs Bean - The Story -

I personally see no real conflicts between Ender version of the story and Bean's. We are all the hero (or central figure) in our own life story. We live it, we see it, we tell it from our own unigue perspective, and that alone is more than enough to explain the difference.

Ender was indeed the Commander, he had the ability to make people love him, and make them willing to die for him, and make them willing to follow them against all reason and odds.

But Bean had this ability too, at least when he wasn't overshadowed by Ender. Once Ender left earth and Bean stayed behind to continue fighting the fight on earth, we find that many many loved him, were dedicated and loyal to him, and would follow his order against all logic and reason.

Out of Ender's shadow, we see that Bean really was Ender's equal. But you can't have two supreme leaders. Someone ultimately has to lead, and someone ultimately has to follow. In Battle School and Command School, Bean, who survived by not getting too deeply involved in the world around him, followed. Let Ender carry that weight and danger.

But later when circumstances force Bean to become involved, he really did have all the leadership attributes we assign the Ender.

So, again, I see no conflict between the Bean and Ender stories. Bean did what Ender could not, and Ender did what Bean could not. Yet, between the two of them, misunderstood as they were, they were an absolutely unbeatable team.

Yes, Bean did lots of things in the background. Partly because he was smart enough to figure out what was going on. And rather than try to suppress information from Bean, and effort that would ultimately fail, they decided to use Bean's talents to everyone's advantage.

Yet, Ender did things like this as well. While everyone was obsessed with the pointless Battle Room. Ender was concentrating on the Buggers. He knew that was where the answer to defeating them lied, even if no one else did. Ender saw things that Bean did not, but Bean saw things that Ender simply didn't have the time to see.

They were both heroes, and one being a hero does not steal anything away from the other being a hero as well. There is room in the world for more than one hero in my opinion.

So, I really don't see Bean's story diminishing Ender in the slightest.

Just one man's opinion.

Steve/bluewizard
 

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Posted by Fonix (Member # 11891) on :
 
I will still say that Bean did not have that ability. The fact is Ender's Jeesh were the best of the best and none of them "loved" Bean outside of Petra. It should also be noted that Petra said that Ender was the best she had known. Ender was not an option for her to be involved with, so she settled for Bean. Settled may be a bad way of saying it, but I can't think of any better way to say it.

The men who loved Bean were the small force of soldiers he acquired in Shadow of the Hegemon. Besides Bean learned the proper way to command an army from Ender.

Tactically, Bean just saw it. The same way Ender just tends to see people for what they are.

However if anyone has been undermined in all of this, I would say it has to be Alai. Ender on first impulse thought that Alai could do his job. When asked to really be honest with himself then he took it back. However, Alai in the Shadow books is afraid to go to war against Bean.

Some things that the shadow books showed us are that Bean tended to agree with Ender's strategies. Which meant he thought Ender was doing the right thing. Even if Ender's strategies were different they were still successful. I say this to just to point out, that just because Bean could see everyone's strategy doesn't mean that he could necessarily defeat it if the other side had an overwhelming advantage. Bean never really gained that advantage of Earth, so much as the others with more capable armies lost it due to the factors of other people involved.

All in all, after rereading most of these books after getting Ender in Exile, I just saw two things. Bean was smarter, Ender was a better commander. Bean's vision of himself was as Ender's right hand. Ender didn't see things in terms of tactics, he saw them in terms of objectives. He relied on everyone else to develop their own tactics.
 

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Posted by Lyrhawn (Member # 7039) on :
 

quote:

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Ender was not an option for her to be involved with, so she settled for Bean. Settled may be a bad way of saying it, but I can't think of any better way to say it.

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quote:

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Re: The revised Chapter 15 of Ender's Game.
OSC says: I meant to write it immediately, while all the events of Ender in Exile were fresh in my mind. But I didn't, and now it has been months, and I will actually have to WORK to do it right. So please bear with me - I'll get this fix in place as quickly as I can.

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quote:

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"It's not your war," said Valentine.
Ender laughed. "It's always my war."

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