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She, who consider herself uneducated and blunt, speaks as if she has learnt it all by heart, with language most uncommon in human-to-human talks.

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She considers herself to be this, but in reality she's not only exceptionally intelligent, she's been taught by one of the most intelligent men on the planet
 

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Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
 
I might spell check before I criticize someone else's dialogue.

Just Sayin.
 

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Posted by Orson Scott Card (Member # 209) on :
 
You had to get to Children of the Mind before you noticed how awful my dialogue is? Not very observant of you.

I always try to have my characters speak like robots. How'm I doing?
 

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Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
 
try typing a coherent post in Polish, JT. Just sayin.
 

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Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
 
I wasn't talking to you, Kama.

Your English is better than mine, and Polish looks like hieroglyphics to me.
 

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Posted by Kama (Member # 3022) on :
 
You were talking to Szymon. He's Polish and I imagine hasn't had all that much practice speaking (or writing) English.
 

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Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
 
Well, in that case, I think my point stands. But I give him extra credit for being able to write at all in another language.
 

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Posted by Crotalus (Member # 7339) on :
 
I vehemently (gotta love that word) disagree. As I said in an earlier post Card's dialogue rivals Asimov's, who I also still assert was a great dialoguist (is that a word?) for his time. All you who disagree with me (including you Mr. Card - your characters don't talk like robots, although Asimov's robots did talk like characters-whatever that means) are wrong. So there.
 

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Posted by Szymon (Member # 7103) on :
 
I consider myself a good observant, CotM were only an example, as I wrote. It doesnt change the fact that Mr Card is one of my most favourite writers.
I wish I spoke English better, so I read as many books in English as possible. Unfortunately there are no OSC books in original here in Poland:) I bought Enders Game in Boston though
 

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Posted by A Rat Named Dog (Member # 699) on :
 
Szymon, is it possible that you're missing some subtleties because of the language barrier? The passage you quoted was MEANT to be jarring and sound wrong coming from a child. He wrote it that way on purpose.
 

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Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
 
>>I always try to have my characters speak like robots. How'm I doing?

Terribly. Can't you do anything right?

Maybe if you put an different indicator for the dialogue-- you know, something other than quotation marks. I know you're struggling with this, so I've helpfully spent the morning writing up some examples:

Example 1:

$Well, Joe, as you know, the protomuon-decombobulator disassembles atoms from their quantum material, and then reassembles them in another form. This, of course, proves Heinlein's hypothesis of discordant elementary symbioses. Now if only we could get Orson Scott Card to understand, we could get our funding from the government!$

Analysis: Do you see how the '$' accentuates the dialogue perfectly? Because this story is all about money-- despite the extremely complex and moving exposition describing the importance of the protomuon discombobulator, the speaker is really only worried about money. The '$' is a subtle and effective help for the reader, gently nudging them back toward the central theme of the story.

Example 2:

*Quick, come with me! There's no time to explain, Marcia!*

*John, what-- what are you doing with that gun? And why is half your face covered in steel?*

*There's no time, I tell you! If you ever trusted me, my love, you must come with me now!*

Analysis: I don't hardly even need to tell you how much the '*' add to this story. But I will anyway. Classically, the '*' is used to indicate a footnote, an addendum-- here, its juxtaposition as an indication of something vitally important to the story sets up a pleasant sensation in the reader's mind, as if to say, *Oh, look how clever this author is. So long, I've been a slave to the fasion of relegating the * to voidative legal statements at the end of car ads in magazines. Now my mind is opened to the immediacy of the *. Thank you, O wise author!*

Example 3:

--Mary, could you pass me the butter, please?--

--Here you are, Thomas. Jane, how was school today?--

--Very good, Mother. We dissected a frog.--

--A frog, you say? Of which species?--

--The teacher did not tell us, Father, and I did not inquire.--

Analysis: This, of course, is how robots and telepaths speak to one another. The double-hyphen (called in some Byzantine/academe circles the 'em-dash'), bespeaks of unbreachable distances between the speakers; as if their power of community is fueled by faulty circuits or jittery neuron pathways. The -- indicates and forces the reader to confront the fact that we are all alone, will ever be all alone, and that life is a futile search for meaning. Accept the nothing, wear this black turtle-neck, you bourgeoisie sheep.

Final Analysis:

Orson Scott Card's dialogue could greatly be improved by shunning the traditionalist " and using $, *, or -- to indicate dialogue.



Dialogue is one of OSC's greatest strengths, and IMO, perhaps his GREATEST strength. I don't know of another author who so effectively gets it right with regards to characterization through dialogue. As an example, Step's conversation with Steve's teacher in 'Lost Boys,' or ANY dialogue between Ender and Jane.

Ooo, some REALLY effective examples are the exchanges that take place at the beginning of the chapters in the Ender series-- we aren't told who is speaking, we don't know the setting; but through dialogue, OSC gives us this information flawlessly, without interrupting the natural flow of the dialogue. No exposition, no fumbling around (Don't you love the moonlight here on Aldek IV, and the smell of the swamp gas?). . . just skillful storytelling.

I respectfully disagree with your assessment, Szymon.
 

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Posted by Olivet (Member # 1104) on :
 
Wow.

I mean, I dream of writing dialogue like OSC. He's one of few writers whose dialogue makes giggle and hug myself with glee. If I was going to gripe about something, I don't know what it would be, but his dialogue would be at the very top of my list of things I'd like to be able to do when I grow up.

ScottR, Thanks for the laugh. Made my morning. ;0
 

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Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
 
Olivet-- My pleasure. I live to serve.
 

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Posted by rivka (Member # 4859) on :
 
*giggle* Very nice, Scott.
 

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Posted by Orincoro (Member # 8854) on :
 
OSC writes great INNER monologues, the dialogue is like reading bad erotic stories with no sex...

Ironically one exception is Jane, the only actual computer in the ender series, who interacts speaks more naturally and fluidly than anyone else human or not. Hmmmmm. Coincidence?
 

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Posted by Scott R (Member # 567) on :
 
>>the dialogue is like reading bad erotic stories with no sex...<<

:shakes head:

I don't even get your analogy. Can you be clearer?

And, look, seriously-- if you're going to make a critiscism like this, give examples.

Here's an example of GOOD dialogue, from OSC's online story, 'Homeless in Hell.'

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So I say my name and he makes this moue with his mouth like you sort of passed your expiration date about a month ago and he says, "Please, don't waste my time," and he starts to close the door in your face.

"Wait a minute," you say, "this is hell, right?"

"Hades," he says, and you can taste the contempt.

"Well I didn't make heaven, so you've got to let me in."

"No," he says, and then with a kind of faux patience he explains, "The place where, when you go there, they have to take you in, that's home. Not hell. We don't have to take just anybody. We're all about class here, nobody wants to look around and see you. There are real celebs inside. Stalin. Hitler. Caligula, for heaven's sake -- oops, did I say that?"

"I'm not asking for the best seat in the house."

"There is no table insignificant enough for you."

I did a quick calculation -- how many people ever lived on earth, how many would likely fail the entrance exam for heaven, and how many first-rank sinners would be ahead of me in line. "But ... what do I do?"

"You bogey off and stop blocking the door."

"What do you think this is? Studio 54?"

He laughs. "Oh, no, it's much worse. It's like junior high. And you ... ain't ... cool."

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