I'm writing this without referencing any of the books, and it's been a little while since I've read them, so I could be wrong about this, but...
At the end of SotH, Graff (I think) tells Peter that the reason he wasn't picked for Battle School wasn't because he was too cruel and vicious, but because he couldn't get people to follow him the way Ender could. However, in all the other books, Peter is always said not to be picked because he was so mean. Even in conversations between adults at Battle School, they give that reason. I guess it could be some massive conspiracy for some reason... they don't want Peter to know why he wasn't picked? Would it be good for him to think he was that vicious? Or bad for him to know he couldn't lead people like Ender? I guess if he had known the latter, he might not have been able to create the FPE, which certainly would have been a problem for everyone.
I'm not sure what I'm asking here... I guess just post your thoughts?
Posted by lonelywalker (Member # 7815) on :
I was wondering, while reading the books, why Peter wasn't chosen, when more straightforwardly vicious (and not as smart) people like Bonzo were. Bonzo wasn't a great leader either - he didn't seem to have the respect of any of his army.
I tend to suspect that Peter may not have been chosen because not only was he lacking in compassion, but he was also much smarter than any of the teachers, and very unlikely to get caught doing whatever he was doing. Peter would be totally uncontrollable.
Now, the same could have been said of Achilles, but Achilles was brought to Battle School mainly to serve as a test for Bean. The teachers knew that even if they could not stop Achilles, Bean could. Anyway, how devious Achilles really was is up for debate. Bean says that all the soldiers knew what Achilles was up to, and that Achilles was now just one smart guy amongst many very smart guys.
One idea I had was that perhaps the teachers - or SOMEONE (maybe even Peter himself) - deliberately made sure that Peter would fail to get into Battle School. After all, if Battle School succeeded in producing a general to win the war, there had to be some kind of contingency plan. Who's to say that someone wasn't at work trying to find the Lincoln to Ender's Grant?
Posted by accio (Member # 3040) on :
Could it be possible that OSC just came up with the conversation with Graff in order to put Peter in a favorable position in SOTG?
Posted by Farmgirl (Member # 5567) on :
I took it that Peter always believed it was because he was so mean, and that others around him believed it was because he was so mean..
..but only Graff knew the real reason, and revealed it to Peter in that conversation.
Farmgirl
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
quote: One idea I had was that perhaps the teachers - or SOMEONE (maybe even Peter himself) - deliberately made sure that Peter would fail to get into Battle School. After all, if Battle School succeeded in producing a general to win the war, there had to be some kind of contingency plan. Who's to say that someone wasn't at work trying to find the Lincoln to Ender's Grant?
Read SotG, that thought is echoed almost exactly by Graff.
and, uhhh, *SPOILERS* ^^^
Posted by PeterTheHegemon (Member # 7620) on :
I hadn't thought of that. But if if there were so many children (relatively) who were militarily talented enough to get into Battle School, wouldn't there be at least as many potential candidates to create a new Earth government? There would probably be another person that Bean and the others would be more willing to help take control. Of course, that person wouldn't be Ender's brother, and that would destroy the plot of SotH, SP and SotG.
Posted by El JT de Spang (Member # 7742) on :
I think it's mainly due to motivation by Graff and co. that pushed Peter to push Val and have the two of them become big shots via the net. This was aided by John Paul and Theresa, and was what actually led to Peter being in the right place at the right time, so to speak, when the buggers were defeated and attention turned back earthward.
While I'm sure there were many battle school rejects and other smart, driven individuals on earth, none were in Peter's unique position of having a loyal following to leverage into an office that was powerless when he got it.
Posted by theamazeeaz (Member # 6970) on :
I've always felt that Peter and Val would have gotten into Battle School if it weren't for the fact that Graff had hand selected the Wiggins in his search for the perfect commander. If you read "First Meetings," you'll find that Graff basically decided that since John Paul was so stubborn, he would take his kids instead. He watched the family from when John Paul was nearly six, looking for "THE ONE." Provided that John Paul and Theresa hadn't successfully started their relgious colony of little youngsters in the American desert and successfully alluded standard IF testing for all their children, all three kids probably would have gone, because Battle School looks for smart children in general. Yet since the IF still needed the one special child, and didn't have it, they were willing to screw up all their systems to speed train Ender. As a result kids like Peter and Valentine were left on Earth. In all likelihood, they were probably among very very few children that bright to stay planetside. Well, you know what THAT caused.
Posted by X12 (Member # 5867) on :
Maybe Graff just lied (he can do that, he is human and does what he needs to to get what needs to be done, done).
Posted by Orson Scott Card (Member # 209) on :
Memory fades. By the time Graff says that in Hegemon, he actually has come to like Peter. So he has adjusted his memory.
Come on, you know about this phenomenon.
Guy breaks up with girl. "I never really loved her."
Guy falls back in love with girll. "I always loved her, even when I was with Girl With Bigger Bra."
Our memory becomes what we need it to be; it takes actual effort to be true to your own changes of mind.
Posted by wiggin105 (Member # 7897) on :
quote: Our memory becomes what we need it to be; it takes actual effort to be true to your own changes of mind.
what a great quote. mind if i put that in my aim profile?
Posted by Syrjay (Member # 7706) on :
quote: "I always loved her, even when I was with Girl With Bigger Bra."
You made me spit up my water..
Posted by CRash (Member # 7754) on :
I like the idea that Graff was playing a deeper game with Peter. That "he was too aggressive" bit never really clicked with me.
Posted by Survivor (Member # 233) on :
Graff is speaking with the benefit of hindsight.
But there is more to it than that. Peter doesn't have the right qualities for military command. When he tries to take over the world, he does it like a politician. Achilles tries a coup, Peter lets Bean do the actual fighting while he goes around and smiles for the cameras. When he was a kid trying to control his siblings, he uses intimidation and emotional blackmail...but he stays within those bizarre rules that all real politicians instinctively understand.
Or too sum it all up, Peter would never have gone for the enemies gate, even if someone told him he could win that way.
He probably failed the personality assessment for military command aptitude even looking at it blind. And Graff didn't like him, so there was no special exemption.
Val's the same way, though Graff probably liked her. He still could see it would be pointless to try and make her a soldier. Remember that scene in Xenocide when she tells the mayor and the Bishop that they need to do something, and they don't listen? So what does she do at that point? She runs around trying to figure out what to do within the contraints she's been dealt. That isn't what a soldier thinks. Not even a grunt thinks that way.
At least, not when there's real fighting to be done.
![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)