An interesting little question that gets me thinking from time to time here . Who would win in an anything-goes flat-out battle between these two protagonists? It would probably depend on where the battle took place. So let's say it's as on a neutral ground as possible. Somewhere on Earth, with varying terrain around (Alvin would have access to the forests and such, and Nafai would be wearing the Cloak). And just them- Alvin couldn't ask Peggy what to do, and Nafai couldn't have Mebbekew bash anyone over the head with a shovel I'd probably have to throw my money with Alvin, but I think it'd be a good fight anyway. Thoughts?
[ January 15, 2005, 05:42 PM: Message edited by: MagusFire ]
Posted by Bork (Member # 7283) on :
Nothing would happen, Alvin wouldnt want to kill Nafai and Nafai wouldn't want to kill Alvin, are you forgetting the mercy Alvin showed to Mike Fink and the mercy Nafai showed to Elemak? Both characters are generally good natured and wouldn't want to hurt anyone, if they ever met Nafai would more likely join Alvin than turn against him...
And dont talk about the slave trader Alvin killed, anyone who thinks people deserve to be enslaved because of their skin gets whats coming to them...
[ January 15, 2005, 06:48 PM: Message edited by: Bork ]
Posted by MagusFire (Member # 6780) on :
Yeah, I thought someone would say this
The fight is, obviously, hypothetically speaking. maybe the characters aren't fighting to the death, and just want to test eachother's powers. For argument's sake here though, let's say that they're fighting.
Posted by Bork (Member # 7283) on :
In that case Alvin would win without any trouble whatsoever, he could cripple Nafai before Nafai could even think to react. It wouldnt even be close...
Posted by Joldo (Member # 6991) on :
And Nafai could fix himself in no time. Plus Alvin needs more time and thought to fix his energy. Also, I doubt Alvin could find a way into the Cloak.
Alvin has an advantage, though. He's not hooked up to the Oversoul so Nafai can't delve into his mind. And he can read Nafai's intentions a little early in his heartfire.
Posted by Vadon (Member # 4561) on :
Close match, but Alvin has to kind of... go out of himself for his Doodle Bug. A perfect time to strike with the energy arc. While Alvin can read movements from muscles, Nafai can read the mind. So.. I'm with Nafai.
Posted by Bork (Member # 7283) on :
Alvin can hurt Nafai alot quicker than Nafai can heal himself, Alvin can work of will and doesn't have to put alot of thought into what he does, he just does it. He had to think about it when he was younger, but later on he gets to the point of doing it as easy as he breaths.
[ January 15, 2005, 09:26 PM: Message edited by: Bork ]
Posted by Lille Mu (Member # 7115) on :
I think that both would die of jealousy when they 'd realize that the other is so strong and so good... ans so proud of himself...
Posted by ChaosTheory (Member # 7069) on :
Hmmm provided that the two of them could use their abilitis (Alvins "maker" and Nafai's cloak)
Alvin has the greater power/ability but I doubt he would use them...Nafai wouldn't want to use his powers but I think he would do what he thinks is best for "the future of the human race"
overall im not sure and I doubt that either would fight each other in the first place.
cool idea though...
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
I think that Ender would destroy them both, and then agonize about it for at least three more books.
He might even write his own book about it.
[ January 18, 2005, 11:03 PM: Message edited by: mr_porteiro_head ]
Posted by mothertree (Member # 4999) on :
Wow, we had an "If ender and alvin fight, who will win" thread back in my n00b days. Alvin may have killed in anger before, but Nafai killed because the Oversoul told him to. So I can envision a case where Nafai might have to kill Alvin. Maybe that's how the next book ends. Seriously, I think Nafai would win. Because sci fi is better than fantasy.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
In high school, we endlessly debated who would win -- high level D&D wizzard or a mechwarrior in his mech?
Which is even more lame than the lamest of all speculations -- who would in in a battle of the Enterprise vs. a Star Destroyer.
(answer? Star Destroyer.)
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
I used to play a fair amount of Gamma World, and was always struck by how easily a good mech from that game could have defeated a high level D&D wizard.
So what's your logic on the Star Destroyer being the victor against the Enterprise Porter? Oh, and which Enterprise?
Posted by Noemon (Member # 1115) on :
Oh, and which is geekier--the Enterprise vs Star Destroyer debate, or arguing about what alignment various comic book characters would have, in D&D terms?
Posted by Papa Moose (Member # 1992) on :
I'll put my money on Lanik Mueller.
Posted by mr_porteiro_head (Member # 4644) on :
quote:So what's your logic on the Star Destroyer being the victor against the Enterprise Porter? Oh, and which Enterprise?
The logic is actually pretty irrelevant. The real reason is that star destroyers are much cooler than the Enteterprise, and Darth Vader is cooler than any Star Trek captain.
But arguing about alignment might be even more geeky. I personally hate the D&D alignment system, and always have. It just doesn't match what real people are like.
Posted by Anna (Member # 2582) on :
"If two makers fight, that means that one of them is not a maker, but the contrary."
Posted by Lille Mu (Member # 7115) on :
But is Nafai a maker ?
Posted by dafadox (Member # 6885) on :
This is easy --- Nafai could use his connection with the Oversoul and make Alvin stupid, and make Alvin kill himself. Knowing Nafai, he would take a few shots and make Alvin feel bad about it =P
Posted by 0range7Penguin (Member # 7337) on :
First of which kind of stardestroyer are we talking about. While the enterprise might give a victory class stardestroyer a run for its money both an imperial stardestroyer and a !SUPER! stardestroyer would crush the enterprise like an insignificant bug. Also the turbolasers in starwars were way cooler/more powerfull than the puny "phasers" in startrek. As to Alvin vs Nafai it wouldn't be a matter of Nafai healing himself because Alvin could just make all his organs meld into eachother at once his organs would all become one big unfunctioning organ. Alvin could simaltaneously meld his lungs and heart shut aswell. No contest. Not to mention that Alvin could probably do the same organ melting trick to a brain and thus shutting down Nafai before he could react.
Posted by dafadox (Member # 6885) on :
Alvin could do all those things, yes, but Nafai would make the Oversoul make Alvin stupid and probably make him do it to himself first.
Posted by 0range7Penguin (Member # 7337) on :
I never got that far in the homecomeing series. I only read the first book and have meant to go back to it but I thought someone said that you have to be plugged into the oversoul for it to stupify you. Which Alvin would not have been.
Posted by TomDavidson (Member # 124) on :
"While the enterprise might give a victory class stardestroyer a run for its money both an imperial stardestroyer and a !SUPER! stardestroyer would crush the enterprise like an insignificant bug."
Nope. Why? Because, all else being equal, the Enterprise can fire at warp, and can fire torpedoes that are themselves capable of warp velocities.
Think about that for a second. That means that there is absolutely no way -- none -- that the slower-than-light turbolaser batteries of an ISS could hit the Enterprise, and no way for an ISS to evade any of the Enterprise's shots.
Any scenario I've seen that involved a "fair fight" that didn't end with an Enterprise win either neglected warp-speed combat altogether or arranged to somehow knock out the Enterprise's warp drive.
Posted by AntiCool (Member # 7386) on :
I don't recall ever seeing warp-speed combat on ST.
Posted by 0range7Penguin (Member # 7337) on :
Yes but because you have to take two completely different versions of physics (hyperspeed Vs.Warpspeed) you have to take some things into account. First off is that in starwars you can't fight in hyperspace so if we merge the phisics the stardestroyers would be able to fight at warpspeed aswell. Secondly the stardestroyers have numerous tracking beams that could grab the enterprise and hold it in place. Then the fact that turbolasers are slow would make no difference. Also a Superstar destroyer is so big and is protected with so many sheilds that it would take a long time for the enterprise to do any significant damage.
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