In chapter 16, Novinha revealed she knew no one could ever leave Lusitania once they are infected with the Descolada. Why didn't she tell Ender before he landed on Lusitania?
During their first face-to-face meeting, Novinha actually told Ender he sould leave Lusitania. If she knew anyone with the Descolada could trigger the complete destruction of another world's biosphere, wasn't that rather thoughtless of her?
Just wondering. I know there are more dedicated Enderverse scholars out there who can set my mind at ease.
[ June 22, 2003, 08:12 AM: Message edited by: Beren One Hand ]
Posted by Frisco (Member # 3765) on :
She cancelled her call for a speaker days after she made it, didn't she? She had no idea he was coming after that...
As far as telling him to leave, well...I give her the benefit of the doubt. In the heat of the moment, emotion often outweighs logic. Kinda like telling an annoying quadrapalegic to go take a hike.
Nothing an ordinary human being wouldn't do or say, so put your mind at ease...
Posted by Cassandra (Member # 4566) on :
I don't think Novinha knew back then that he wouldn't be able to leave Lusitania, but then, I haven't read the books in at least a year and a half, so my knowledge of them is rather spotty.
MMm, but Frisco's right, she did cancel the call afterwards, so . . . yeah.
Posted by Nick (Member # 4311) on :
quote: In chapter 16, Novinha revealed she knew no one could ever leave Lusitania once they are infected with the Descolada. Why didn't she tell Ender before he landed on Lusitania?
Didn't Jane tell Ender of the danger before he landed?
Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :
Thanks guys, that does put my mind at ease.
You guys are absolutely right about emotions overruling logic. I forgot that Novinha was dealing with a lot of emotional problems at the time. Her husband just died and seeing Ender brings back the memories of Pipo and Libo's deaths as well.
Some points:
Novinha had some warning about Ender's arrival. In Chapter 6, Bishop Peregrino delivered a homily about the Speaker for the Dead. This sermon most likely took place before Ender landed. Didn't Novinha attend that sermon?
Furthermore, Novinha said in Chapter 16 that the Speaker may not have caught the Descolada yet. So even if Novinha didn't know about Ender's arrival until they actually ran into each other, she should've immediately tested Ender for the Descolada virus during their first meeting; if he tested negative, she should've send him off world immediately.
Nick, I think Jane is aware of the Descolada virus. But I don't think she knew the virus would destroy every biosphere it touched.
[ May 10, 2003, 04:17 PM: Message edited by: Beren One Hand ]
Posted by The Wiggin (Member # 5020) on :
On you'r first point she was at work during church so obviosly she didn't hear the sermon.
On the second she probly didn't test him for the same reson she told him to get lost plus she couldn't have kicked him off planet and he obvisoly wasn't going to leave.
And finally if Jane was aweare of the virus she wold have known every thing in any notes about the virus thus realizing what it ment.
Posted by Alai (Member # 1663) on :
Well you guys have also forgot that even if Novinha wanted to contact Ender and tell him what would happen if he landed, she wouldn't be able to. To contact a ship while its going the speed of light, is either VERY expensive or impossible. Either way it would stop Ender from doing so.
And I don't think Jane knew about the Descolada. I just picked up Speaker for the Dead yesterday (and I'm already passed that part) and Jane never told Ender about any dangers.
Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :
Thanks for pointing out my mistake Wiggin. You're absolutely right. Novinha was at work during the sermon. I still think Novinha knew roughly what day Ender would arrive on Lusitania. When Olhado told Novinha the Speaker was in their house, Novinha wasn't completely surprised. She was surprised that the Speaker was visiting her in her home, but she was not surprised that a speaker was on Lusitania. Therefore, even though she did not attend the sermon, Novinha probably knew roughly when Ender was coming.
Alai, I think you are right that it would be extremely expensive (but not impossible) for Novinha to contact Ender while the ship was in transit. As I recall, Val was able to publish her essays via ansible while flying at near-light speed. Furthermore, Novinha could've left him a message for him to pick up while he was in orbit of Lusitania. Ender's ship didn't just jump out of warp and landed directly on Lusitania. The ship had to make the Park Shift near Lusitania and then a shuttle takes Ender from his ship down to the surface. There was plenty of time for Novinha to make that important call.
Considering the potential danger of the Descolada virus, I think Novinha should've made the effort to warn Ender not to land on Lusitania.
Thanks for indulging me in my pursuit of this somewhat trivial point.
[ May 12, 2003, 04:00 AM: Message edited by: Beren One Hand ]
Posted by Chamrajngar (Member # 3242) on :
Then again, are we sure she's human? She sounds to bitchy to be human...
Posted by enat66 (Member # 5305) on :
All right, just finsished the book and I am new here. Wasn't that part of the information that Novinha thought killed Pipo? Isn't that part of why she didn't tell him.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
Valentine could transmit essays because of Jane's help. Also, if she had wanted to she could have afforded it due to low yield long term investments while space traveling. On the other hand, Jane could have given Ender whatever information.
Possible SPOILERS
Didn't Jane actually use her "powers" to hack Novinha's files anyway? Or am I thinking ahead to another book?
Posted by Pokeme (Member # 4643) on :
I don't think Jane hacked into Novinha's files because while Ender was discovering that Novinha had files worth being unlocked, it was the same time that he had turned off the jewel in his ear. But now that I think of it, I do remember something about the Descolada... hmmm.
Posted by blacwolve (Member # 2972) on :
But you don't catch the Descolada right away. In all likelyhood he had not yet been infected when she told to him to leave. Also, she probably assumed he would come down, realize he wasn't wanted, and leave. Why would she warn him, if such a warning was going to be unnessecary, and almost certainly disasterous for the colony.
Posted by Qrios (Member # 5259) on :
Well, plus, I don't think at the beginning any of them had any idea how resourceful the virus was going to be. Novinha was still thinking she could just change a few genes and they wouldn't have to worry about it anymore. It isn't really until they start dealing with the fact they're running out of options to stay ahead of it in Xenocide that they really begin to realize what a danger the descolada is to the universe, is it?
Posted by Qrios (Member # 5259) on :
I just finished Xenocide last night. Was anyone else as disturbed by sudden return of Peter and Valentine as I was? That seems like the most far fetched of anything that's happened in the books so far.
Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :
quote:But you don't catch the Descolada right away. In all likelyhood he had not yet been infected when she told to him to leave. Also, she probably assumed he would come down, realize he wasn't wanted, and leave.
blacwolve, that's a really good point. However, eventually Novinha had to realize that Ender was not going to leave easily. After their first two meetings she should've realized that Ender was 1) not discouraged by her cancelation, 2) is staying not only to speak for the death she called for but also for two other deaths.
Even if Novinha thought Ender was leaving soon, and even if she was 90% sure Ender hasn't caught the virus yet, shouldn't she have tested Ender just in case?
Qrios, I felt the same dismay when I saw Peter and Val's return. I mean, it would be one thing if the REAL Peter had returned. That would've been fun to see him challenge Ender. However, in the last book (CotM), something wonderful happens to Ender that could not have happened without Peter 2. So for that, I forgive these two lame characters.
Posted by Magson (Member # 2300) on :
In the meeting that was held to determine if the fence should come down of not, Novinha mentioned then that Ender hadn't been there long enough and wouldn't have caught the virus yet, and so could still leave at that time, if he wanted to. He'd been there all of, what 3-4 days?
The original colonists didn't catch it for years. Novinha was born on Lusitania, yet she was 6 when the Descolada finally struck. How long had the colony been there before she was born?
Later, in Xenocide we found out that the Descolada was intelligent and had adapted itself to be able to "hit" humans, so maybe the turnaround time would be faster for Ender to catch it, but we really don't know that. And at the end of Speaker we had no idea about that at all, and could safely assume at that point that Ender also had years before he needed to worry.
Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :
Magson, I like your answer.
I guess even though the Descolada mutates quickly, even Novinha would not expect it to adapt that quickly.
Darn. Now I can't hate Novinha as much as I use to. Posted by Laurenz0 (Member # 5336) on :
Its a good thing you can't hate her as much as you used to. She is a beautiful person. Strong willed, willing to put herself in front of the bullet for other people. She unquestionably has her heart in the right place and is trying her best to save the people around her. She just doesn't know how, never had the chance to learn.
The word misunderstood works quite well here.
Posted by Beren One Hand (Member # 3403) on :
Well.... maybe hate is not the right word.
I guess I love Ender so much that I wanted him to end up with someone who deserves him. Someone who is like Mother Theresa in Heidi Klum's body. Posted by Laurenz0 (Member # 5336) on :
Someone like that would never work for ender because he is a healer. Someone like that has nothing about them to heal, and for all we know, novinha could be gorgeous. My friend and I actually had a discussion about that and it was in his opinion that she was. Personally a believe she was just "pretty". But still, I think she was perfect for Ender and Ender was perfect for her because the healer had someone to heal.
Posted by pooka (Member # 5003) on :
The creation of val and Peter II was stranger to you than Miro's new body? My question is why there wasn't more of this sort of thing as other people were transported. Maybe they prevented it by having people think of something useful, like what Ela was doing. I mean, why wouldn't Miro have made a young Ouanda that wasn't his sister? I guess it would have been really awkward if he had come back AS young Ouanda.
For me, it demonstrates there is no free lunch. There is a potentially terrible cost associated with "wishing makes it so".
Posted by Adeimantus (Member # 5219) on :
Others weren't created because Ender's mind was constantly focused on His brother and Sister. Hw wanted and wished for his younger innocent sister all the time to protect him and he wanted and wished for his brother's love all the time, so in order to obtain this he had to create two new beings of that time. He wanted these things so badly that he accidently created two new beings with the appearance of his brother and sister, because his feelings were so strong, and probly because philotic connections...
Edit: I believe that this says that there is always some good that will come out of some bad, no matter how bad you may think it is because our actions,though seemingly small, are huge in the long term.
[ June 26, 2003, 03:32 PM: Message edited by: Adeimantus ]
Posted by Qrios (Member # 5259) on :
I'm glad to hear there's good still ahead for Ender. Right now, he's just packed up and moved into the monastary with Novinha and I feel like he's the one who's fading away, and I miss him already. Pooka, interesting point. I guess when Miro moved himself lock stock and soul into the new body at least there were no "souless" types walking around. Takes some getting used to, especially with Peter 2's constant nasty comments. Ah well, trust OSC to deliver more. . . By the way, off another thread, I don't think he has a closed mind, but there's no doubt the eternal questions are important to him and his characters. That's a lot of what makes them so intrigueing. (Wish there was spell check on this thing.)
Posted by Nick (Member # 4311) on :
There is an edit button. If you want to have impeccable grammar, type it first in a document program (Microsoft Word, Word Perfect ect) and then hightlight your text, press ctrl+c and the put the cursor in the response box, and press ctrl+v. Simple as that. Posted by Nick (Member # 4311) on :
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